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Topic: What is my unknown compound?  (Read 28404 times)

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Offline discodermolide

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2012, 04:44:03 PM »
As I said I think the integration is not quite correct. at 2.70 there are 2 hydrogens attached.
The lines tell you how many hydrogen atoms are on the adjacent carbon atom, formula n+1, where n is the number of hydrogens. The intensity of the lines follows Pascal's triangle, 1,   1,1    1, 2, 1,    1,3,3,1 and so on. So for example if you saw 4 lines with intensities of 1,3,3,1 (a quartet) it's neighbouring C atom has 3 hydrogens attached to it. That is n+1 where n is the number of neighbouring hydrogens.
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Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2012, 08:49:27 PM »
As I said I think the integration is not quite correct. at 2.70 there are 2 hydrogens attached.
The lines tell you how many hydrogen atoms are on the adjacent carbon atom, formula n+1, where n is the number of hydrogens. The intensity of the lines follows Pascal's triangle, 1,   1,1    1, 2, 1,    1,3,3,1 and so on. So for example if you saw 4 lines with intensities of 1,3,3,1 (a quartet) it's neighbouring C atom has 3 hydrogens attached to it. That is n+1 where n is the number of neighbouring hydrogens.

So I now know that the compound starts off with a Carbon atom with 3 Hydrogen atoms attached to it. On the NMR there is a long single line that's a 2.0521 ppm. I can't remember if they told me if that was chloroform or water or if that is an actual part of the compound. So it's just one line, so I assume that there is just one of it. It has to be either C, H or O. I may be totally off here though?

Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2012, 11:04:34 PM »
Is it methyl propanoate (C4O8H2)? I think I have narrowed it down to a few that could possibly be it but I can't find any decisive one.

Offline discodermolide

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2012, 12:01:02 AM »
No it's not methyl propionate, but good guess faulty reasoning.
So you have a CH3 group in your molecule which displays as a triplet, this means it is next to a carbon atom that has 2 hydrogens on it.
The signal at 2.05 is neither water nor chloroform.
It is a singlet, meaning it has neighbours with atoms not having hydrogen to them, so what could that be?
And the signal with 5 lines? What does that tell you?
 
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Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2012, 12:04:18 AM »
No it's not methyl propionate, but good guess faulty reasoning.
So you have a CH3 group in your molecule which displays as a triplet, this means it is next to a carbon atom that has 2 hydrogens on it.
The signal at 2.05 is neither water nor chloroform.
It is a singlet, meaning it has neighbours with atoms not having hydrogen to them, so what could that be?
And the signal with 5 lines? What does that tell you?

Hmmm.. well doesn't methyl propionate have 2 H atoms on the 2nd carbon?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2012, 12:05:25 AM »
What does the IR tell you?
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Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2012, 12:10:39 AM »
What does the IR tell you?

I think it tells me where the C-O groups are? If I remember correctly. In the previous post, were you saying the 2nd carbon has 2 H atoms on it or that it does not? Is the first carbon atom with 3 H atoms attached the singlet, meaning the carbon next to it has an Oxygen atom attached?

Offline orgopete

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2012, 12:12:07 AM »
Okay, you are close. Let's review. There are two methyl groups, one has a CH2 attached and the other, none. There are two other CH2 groups. Logically, they are connected. I think you had that. I presume you learned from the IR a C=O and  C-O bond were present, also consistent. If you look at a table of chemical shifts, an atom attached to a oxygen atom will be shifted much further down than one attached to a carbon. One of the CH2 groups is shifted to about 4 ppm. With your MF, what is he compound?
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Offline discodermolide

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2012, 12:14:28 AM »
No I said that the first carbon is attached to a carbon carrying 2 hydrogens.
The singlet corresponds to a CH3 group but has no neighbours having carbons carrying hydrogen atoms. Which is why I asked about the IR.
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Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2012, 12:19:58 AM »
But isn't the CH3, the carbon in CH3 the first carbon atom?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2012, 12:21:36 AM »
There are two CH3 groups in this molecule.
Look at Orgopete's summary.
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Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 12:23:55 AM »
There are two CH3 groups in this molecule.
Look at Orgopete's summary.

Hmmm.. well I know there is a CH3 at the beginning and in the end, but doesn't that mean the first carbon has 3 Hydrogen atoms attached? So how could the first carbon have 2 hydrogens attached?

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2012, 12:26:33 AM »
You are not reading carefully. I said that one of the CH3 groups is attached to a carbon carrying two hydrogens, a CH2 group.

So you have CH3-CH2-Unknown-Unknown-Unknown-CH3.
Look at the IR
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Offline mjoa123

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2012, 12:32:55 AM »
Hmmm.. I think it's methyl butanoate? It also matches my boiling point. Is it methyl butanoate or methyl butyrate?

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Re: What is my unknown compound?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2012, 12:35:26 AM »
No it's not them. I can see you reasoning.
Go back to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_NMR
and look at the table.
Think about the triplet at 4.1 ppm. What does that mean?
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