December 27, 2024, 01:57:38 PM
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Topic: Im in Ochem2 and I realized I still dont know how to study for this class.  (Read 6894 times)

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Offline robocop12

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I heard mech books were good...so I made one with 100 or so pages full of mechanisms
I heard note cards were good so Im gonna try that.
I heard getting a dry erase board and doing mechs/syntheses were good, so Im gonna try that.

I got a 55 on my last test. Im not stupid. I got a B in Ochem1, barely, but thats because I intentionally skipped labs. Ive missed one lab and turned in all my homework, but its like...how do I study?

I need a plan, and Im hoping you guys can help me with it. I have several resources
- Notes (teacher has a huge book of his lecture notes he gives out to us. contains mechs + some nomenclature + some synth)
- SI sheets (mainly synthesis)
- book (Carey, 8th edition...not a huge fan of it....)

Can you guys give me a plan of attack? I know Ochem isnt a class you can cram (even though a friend only studied partially for 2 days and got a 92...I studied for 3 days 5-6 hours a day and got a 55....)

Is studying 2 hours every weekend enough to get me by? I know its not how much you study its how you study so...yeah...I need help :/

Offline orgopete

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...how do I study?

I need a plan, and Im hoping you guys can help me with it. I have several resources
- Notes (teacher has a huge book of his lecture notes he gives out to us. contains mechs + some nomenclature + some synth)
- SI sheets (mainly synthesis)
- book (Carey, 8th edition...not a huge fan of it....)

Can you guys give me a plan of attack? I know Ochem isnt a class you can cram (even though a friend only studied partially for 2 days and got a 92...I studied for 3 days 5-6 hours a day and got a 55....)

Is studying 2 hours every weekend enough to get me by? I know its not how much you study its how you study so...yeah...I need help :/

This isn't a question that I can give an easy answer. If 55 is passing, then I suspect reaction mechanisms are emphasized as my experience shows that if mechanisms are required to solve problems, then scores will be much lower than pattern matching to past exams, for example.

Different persons will have different results. Kobe Bryant did not become an elite player because he practiced more. I am not surprised that high grades go to students that may not have studied as much as those with lower grades.

I suggest you look at my book, A Guide to Organic Chemistry Mechanisms. Go to my website, print out and do the sample pages. I guarantee you can do them. Experience tells me different students need to practice a mechanism different amounts. Many students made 10 copies of a mechanism to master it. I expect the better you recognize how one mechanism resembles another can significantly the effort to learn new reactions.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Offline Big-Daddy

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Kobe Bryant did not become an elite player because he practiced more.

While I agree with what you say about mechanisms, this bit isn't true at all, and nor is the gist behind it. It takes an immense amount of effort to reach the top in anything. And effort makes a large difference even for people on lower levels; but most importantly, that difference could be colossal, except that it has to be channelled properly for this to become reality. You can't just "work more", you have to figure out how to work in order to improve.

Although of course mechanisms are extremely important, so I would recommend them also to the OP. As for your friend who only studied partially for 2 days, maybe your friend has simply been putting in a consistent and fair bit of time every day throughout the year, which is why his overall mastery is better. Grasp is the only thing that leads to 40% mark differences. If it was knowledge, well then you just need to make sure to learn things properly ...

Offline TwistedConf

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Is studying 2 hours every weekend enough to get me by?

Definitely not. Try an average of 2 hours every day or two.

You don't need all that extra stuff. Use the assigned text and the instructor's class notes. Go after extra resources if there's time after that. Start with the basic material, and then do every kind of practice problem you can find. If you don't understand them, go see your instructor.

One could also suspect that your grasp of Organic I concepts isn't as good as you think it is-- which will lead to trouble for any student when they need to apply all that stuff at the end of the year no matter how much you study.

Offline orgopete

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Kobe Bryant did not become an elite player because he practiced more.

While I agree with what you say about mechanisms, this bit isn't true at all, and nor is the gist behind it. It takes an immense amount of effort to reach the top in anything. And effort makes a large difference even for people on lower levels; but most importantly, that difference could be colossal, except that it has to be channelled properly for this to become reality. You can't just "work more", you have to figure out how to work in order to improve.

Although of course mechanisms are extremely important, so I would recommend them also to the OP. As for your friend who only studied partially for 2 days, maybe your friend has simply been putting in a consistent and fair bit of time every day throughout the year, which is why his overall mastery is better. Grasp is the only thing that leads to 40% mark differences. If it was knowledge, well then you just need to make sure to learn things properly ...

I wish Big Daddy were correct. I wish that I could beat Usain Bolt by better or smarter practice. I wish it were true that everyone could earn an "A" by just studying harder or longer. I use my own experience as a guide. I definitely did not study very hard in organic compared to my other classes, but I did not have equal results. I wish organic chemistry were an easy class and low achievement was due to a lack of or misplaced effort. I suspect that is simply not true. My book is virtually how I studied, but from what students have told me, many of them have studied much harder than I did.

If there was a skill that a class had to master, I would expect a bell shaped curve in the mastery of that skill. None of this should matter. Your achievement is independent of everyone else's. If you want a high grade, you will have to work for it. I don't see how it matters how much someone else studied.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Offline Big-Daddy

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Kobe Bryant did not become an elite player because he practiced more.

While I agree with what you say about mechanisms, this bit isn't true at all, and nor is the gist behind it. It takes an immense amount of effort to reach the top in anything. And effort makes a large difference even for people on lower levels; but most importantly, that difference could be colossal, except that it has to be channelled properly for this to become reality. You can't just "work more", you have to figure out how to work in order to improve.

Although of course mechanisms are extremely important, so I would recommend them also to the OP. As for your friend who only studied partially for 2 days, maybe your friend has simply been putting in a consistent and fair bit of time every day throughout the year, which is why his overall mastery is better. Grasp is the only thing that leads to 40% mark differences. If it was knowledge, well then you just need to make sure to learn things properly ...

I wish Big Daddy were correct. I wish that I could beat Usain Bolt by better or smarter practice. I wish it were true that everyone could earn an "A" by just studying harder or longer. I use my own experience as a guide. I definitely did not study very hard in organic compared to my other classes, but I did not have equal results. I wish organic chemistry were an easy class and low achievement was due to a lack of or misplaced effort. I suspect that is simply not true. My book is virtually how I studied, but from what students have told me, many of them have studied much harder than I did.

If there was a skill that a class had to master, I would expect a bell shaped curve in the mastery of that skill. None of this should matter. Your achievement is independent of everyone else's. If you want a high grade, you will have to work for it. I don't see how it matters how much someone else studied.

Yes. You will not beat Usain Bolt. In the same way, the average person will find it difficult to become one of the greatest in the world. In the same way the greatest in the world cannot reach that place without an enormous effort. Kobe Bryant did become an elite player because he practised more; he might have been better than someone completely average even without practice, but to reach the top you need the effort as well. Talent alone won't succeed.

In any case there is a massive difference between "working harder" and "working better". If I have a certain, rare, key insight into how to think about, say, writing music (or virtually anything else that resides in the mind - the argument is harder to apply to physical aspects but you could still try), and some talent, I might well become a musician like Mozart; what another person who is only just above average would have to do to join me on my level is to gain that insight into the nature of music, not just "work harder". Gaining these insights is a matter of thinking clearly about what you need to do and how people have done it in the past. It is not impossible. Musicians do not just "write whatever comes to them" (at least, Mozart didn't); they write about what sounds best, and their insights govern them.

So to relate this to organic chemistry: skill comes from realizing how to understand organic chemistry at its core. If someone gets vastly better marks than you, it is most likely because they understand what is needed at a deeper level, and to rectify this you must rethink the way you see organic chemistry and the problems before you.

Offline billnotgatez

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Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
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Offline orgopete

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So to relate this to organic chemistry: skill comes from realizing how to understand organic chemistry at its core. If someone gets vastly better marks than you, it is most likely because they understand what is needed at a deeper level, and to rectify this you must rethink the way you see organic chemistry and the problems before you.

I am happy to see Big Daddy come to agree with me. I saw this all the time. I also knew that repeating a problem but drawing the mirror image of the starting material could completely confuse some students. They had a more literal grasp of the reaction as written and not a more abstract understanding. Loosening a bolt facing away from you will be easier for some people. We just had a laugh in my family when my daughter sent a photo of her desk, but it came through rotated 90°. My brain flipped it without thinking, but others that saw it did not. I did not get what was funny to them.

What I find surprising is that anyone would think work played a greater role than grasp. I never thought nor did the original poster suggest the high achiever learned by putting his textbook under his pillow. However, I am not in the least surprised that one student could solve a problem more quickly than another and that student may solve a larger number of problems in less time. We did small group problems in class all the time. I routinely saw virtually the same students finishing quickly and then helping the slower students to "get it" The net effect is that the person with a greater grasp of a subject may actually study less for the same or an even better result.
Author of a multi-tiered example based workbook for learning organic chemistry mechanisms.

Offline Big-Daddy

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So to relate this to organic chemistry: skill comes from realizing how to understand organic chemistry at its core. If someone gets vastly better marks than you, it is most likely because they understand what is needed at a deeper level, and to rectify this you must rethink the way you see organic chemistry and the problems before you.

I am happy to see Big Daddy come to agree with me. I saw this all the time. I also knew that repeating a problem but drawing the mirror image of the starting material could completely confuse some students. They had a more literal grasp of the reaction as written and not a more abstract understanding. Loosening a bolt facing away from you will be easier for some people. We just had a laugh in my family when my daughter sent a photo of her desk, but it came through rotated 90°. My brain flipped it without thinking, but others that saw it did not. I did not get what was funny to them.

What I find surprising is that anyone would think work played a greater role than grasp. I never thought nor did the original poster suggest the high achiever learned by putting his textbook under his pillow. However, I am not in the least surprised that one student could solve a problem more quickly than another and that student may solve a larger number of problems in less time. We did small group problems in class all the time. I routinely saw virtually the same students finishing quickly and then helping the slower students to "get it" The net effect is that the person with a greater grasp of a subject may actually study less for the same or an even better result.

Agreed.

But grasp is also something you can improve on, if you know how to look. That's what the OP should be trying to do. After all, it is not good to leave 40% gaps between other people and yourself.

Offline kriggy

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Well..2 hrs week means about 26 hours in semester?
I studied 3 weeks for OC2 exam about 6-10 hours a day even on Christmass eve it means about 120-210 hours of study, I did read whole McMurry and took notes. Andy by "read" I mean I read every page and did all exercices about organic synthesis.
I passed with 11pts of 15 and then got "D" because I failed to answer "benzoic acid rearangement" and some other question.
So 2 hrs week isnt enought imo. Its hard at the beggining, all those mechanisms and stuff.
I suggest getting book from library and after lectures read what was discused there. Do exercises, If you dont understand something, ask your teacher or your friend who got 90%. Dont memorize reactions, try to understand the mechanism and then you will realize that its always the same:move some electrons, nucleophilici atack, water elimiantion etc...
Good luck

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