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Topic: Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions  (Read 3583 times)

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Offline Big-Daddy

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Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions
« on: May 13, 2013, 03:31:26 PM »
Here's an excerpt from a syllabus based on hydrolysis, a topic I haven't studied yet:

  • Recognize functional groups that are susceptible to hydrolysis
  • Predict the products of a hydrolysis reaction, or the corresponding condensation
  • Suggest how to shift the equilibrium between hydrolysis and condensation reactions
  • Know which groups are susceptible to acid hydrolysis and which are susceptible to base hydrolysis, and apply this in predicting products of hydrolysis reactions
  • Be able to predict how "labile" a group is, given the conditions are either acidic or basic.
  • Hydrolysis of esters and the special case of glucose and sucrose hydrolyses

Being as unambiguous as I can, where should I start to learn these things?  :-\

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 04:41:39 PM »
You've kind of been tasked with learning this backwards, because most organic chemistry textbooks are ordered by chapters on functional groups and their reactions, sometimes including hydrolysis if applicable.  Instead, you've got to just "find 'em all" with regard to hydrolysis.  Maybe, something else in the syllabus limits the options somewhat.  Funny how the question jumps right to biochemistry, with regards to glucose and sucrose, after just mentioning that you should scan all of organic chemistry.  Even lumping glucose and sucrose together is a bit odd.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline TheOrganic

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Re: Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 04:50:52 PM »
I think you can Google and use authentic sites for learning " hydrolysis reactions. "
If I was in your place, I would first like to know which functional groups are susceptible to hydrolysis first. I'd go to Google and use Google-instant-search feature and type " Hydrolysis of " and that brought up various results like hydrolysis of esters, salts, proteins , amides, sucrose etc. When I typed " Hydrolysis of e " , I got hydrolysis of ethers , esters using base or acid etc- more detailed results.

Go to the sites, understand it and take notes. Any of the sources will cover what exactly is hydrolysis and the relation between hydrolysis and condensation- their equilibrium. If you are good with your basics, then you won't have trouble grasping reversibility, equilibrium and susceptibility to hydrolysis etc as these are based on the fundamental principles of reactivity. Then you can open your text-book and go to those functional groups and read a bit more in details about them.

Hope this helps.
I am new to this forum and it feels nice that people ask questions freely.

Offline Big-Daddy

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Re: Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 05:20:40 PM »
You've kind of been tasked with learning this backwards, because most organic chemistry textbooks are ordered by chapters on functional groups and their reactions, sometimes including hydrolysis if applicable.  Instead, you've got to just "find 'em all" with regard to hydrolysis.  Maybe, something else in the syllabus limits the options somewhat.  Funny how the question jumps right to biochemistry, with regards to glucose and sucrose, after just mentioning that you should scan all of organic chemistry.  Even lumping glucose and sucrose together is a bit odd.

I have not studied any biochemistry at all so I intend to leave that bit for the time being.

I think the syllabus assumes a small degree of organic knowledge by the time you come to this topic, and then intends to fill you in on all the main basic principles to do with hydrolysis and predicting the products of reactants. It's probably ok not to understand all of the functional groups involved in hydrolysis, and then to later come across the one you left out in the context of hydrolysis and realize only at that point how it hydrolyses.

Offline Big-Daddy

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Re: Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 05:25:06 PM »
I think you can Google and use authentic sites for learning " hydrolysis reactions. "
If I was in your place, I would first like to know which functional groups are susceptible to hydrolysis first. I'd go to Google and use Google-instant-search feature and type " Hydrolysis of " and that brought up various results like hydrolysis of esters, salts, proteins , amides, sucrose etc. When I typed " Hydrolysis of e " , I got hydrolysis of ethers , esters using base or acid etc- more detailed results.

Go to the sites, understand it and take notes. Any of the sources will cover what exactly is hydrolysis and the relation between hydrolysis and condensation- their equilibrium. If you are good with your basics, then you won't have trouble grasping reversibility, equilibrium and susceptibility to hydrolysis etc as these are based on the fundamental principles of reactivity. Then you can open your text-book and go to those functional groups and read a bit more in details about them.

Thanks! Your answer is very direct and informative. And it starts with web-based resources which is what I was looking for.

Is it a good idea to learn through the hydrolysis of each functional group separately? Will this be the best way, in the long run, of predicting the products of the hydrolysis reaction (or of an analogous condensation)?

Offline TheOrganic

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Re: Hydrolysis and Condensation Reactions
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 06:14:20 PM »
Is it a good idea to learn through the hydrolysis of each functional group separately? Will this be the best way, in the long run, of predicting the products of the hydrolysis reaction (or of an analogous condensation)?

I think any good organic chemistry course or method of learning will depend greatly on mechanisms and working out mechanisms - because mechanisms are the key to remembering and predicting reactions. The mechanism provide a logical analysis to why things happen a particular way and not some other way. These are very crucial. If you compare and contrast different factors throughout your organic course and try to understand in which case what factor is important, I believe you can succeed in O-chem.

Having said that, there can be two approaches towards covering your course-work - both based on mechanisms. One approach is classifying reactions according to functional groups viz. reactions of Carbon-carbon multiple bonds, reactions of the carbonyl group etc. ; another approach is classifying reactions according to the reaction type- viz. electrophilic addition, pericyclic reaction etc. My personal opinion is that, I find the second approach more logical and helpful in the long run. Your course follows the second approach- classifying according to reaction type. That's good. I feel the problem with the functional group approach is that, for a beginner things get scattered and confusing. For example, one would find charged cyclic intermediates under the umbrella of Alkenes, Alkynes (reactions) , Epoxides (reactions) , Alkyl Halides ( preparation ) , and aldehyde-ketones ( preparation ). The same theme is repeated in 5 sections, possible more. If the beginner is shown the patterns and similarities in reaction of all these reaction intermediates in a single chapter on " Charged ring intermediates " , things will be more organized and less confusing- and above all more time-saving than repeating the same theme in different chapters.

However, I personally think that when you move on to synthesis, you will do better if you do your revision from a functional-group based book/ course-material. For learners, things should be organized and easier to grasp. Synthesis is like a puzzle and synthesis involves transformation of functional groups - and not reaction intermediates. Thus I feel, the functional group approach is more effective for synthesis.

I'd suggest a combination of both will be good, keeping in mind the limitations of both.

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