[lrhea2]

Today in lab I spilled 5ml of .0002M KSCN on the floor.  A drop of it splashed on my leg.  Is this chemical highly toxic?  Is is dangerous if it gets on your skin in very small amounts? 

[magician4]

the pure substance is labelled as being an irritant to skin  (EU - classification)


considering the concentration you've mentioned and the presumed mechanism of thiocyanate-interaction (Fe³⁺ capture) I doubt that any permanent damage whatsoever has been done


regards

Ingo

p.s.:
If I might give you this piece of advice, next time, you'd better take a look at the respective MSDS before you start working with chemicals, so you'd know beforehand if something you're about to work with might be toxic or worse
and: naked legs in the lab are no good idea at all.

[Archer]

As KSCN is a salt it will not readily pass through the skin I am also sure you will be fine.

If I might give you this piece of advice, next time, you'd better take a look at the respective MSDS before you start working with chemicals, so you'd know beforehand if something you're about to work with might be toxic or worse
and: naked legs in the lab are no good idea at all.

I'll second that, I have seen nasty accidents where special precautions have not been taken or just lack of PPE because someone didn't read the MSDS or the risk assessment prior to work.

 Some chemicals are fatal with skin contact so nothing should be taken for granted in the lab.

[curiouscat]

Today in lab I spilled 5ml of .0002M KSCN on the floor.  A drop of it splashed on my leg.

Working in shorts?

My crusty old department head used to take rounds once every month in summer and we had hordes running home in flip flops and shorts for a quick change.

Cranky, but he had a point.

Can't blame the students though. We only got barely two months of shorts-friendly weather in a year.

[Archer]

My crusty old department head used to take rounds once every month in summer and we had hordes running home in flip flops and shorts for a quick change.

Cranky, but he had a point.

I used to kick people out of the lab for wearing shorts or opened toed shoes.

A) Because from behind, shorts and a labcoat looks distrubingly like someone is naked under their labcoat.

B) I saw someone spill a few drops of TFA from a pipette down their bare leg once. The skin just went white immediately (we think it killed all the cells by attacking the citric acid cycle) and they were told that they would have a scar on their leg forever more and that due to the lack of melanin in the scar their risk of skin cancer was greatly increased so they had to put sun block on the scar if they went out in the sun.

These days my lab has climate control so it's too cold for shorts.

[Dan]

If I might give you this piece of advice, next time, you'd better take a look at the respective MSDS before you start working with chemicals

^This

Cranky, but he had a point.

Can't blame the students though. We only got barely two months of shorts-friendly weather in a year.

I use light trousers that can be zipped off just below the knee (from camping shops) in this kind of weather - so I can cool off in the office, at lunch etc. The 90s are coming back, so it will be fashionable again soon...

I used to kick people out of the lab for wearing shorts or opened toed shoes.

Quite right. I worked in a department where 1 week suspensions were issued if you were caught a couple of times working without specs/coat/gloves, with shorts/sandals, or without a COSHH assessment. I would not have liked to try explaining an unplanned week off to my supervisor.

[lrhea2]

While I agree that the MSDS can provide some good information, I tend to think that they over exaggerate some of the side effects.  For instance the msds on 3% hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, which is used to clean cuts has the follow information about skin contact,
"n case of contact, immediately flush skin with plenty of water. Cover the irritated skin with an emollient. Remove contaminated
clothing and shoes. Cold water may be used.Wash clothing before reuse. Thoroughly clean shoes before reuse. Get medical
attention."

That is basically the same thing is says for KSCN and H2O2 is meant to be poured on your skin.  So while I agree that it is a good reference I still think it is better to get information from people who have experience actually working with the chemical in question.

[magician4]

While I agree that the MSDS can provide some good information, I tend to think that they over exaggerate some of the side effects.

it take it that you're living in the land of the free? the land where you aren't allowed to serve a hot and / or strong coffee (else you might get sued), where you find "objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they may appear" in every car,  "may contain traces of nuts" printed on the wrapping of the most unlikely products to contain them, and on and on and on.. ?

that's why


Hence, though the MSDS will list every known effect published (as it has the obligation to do), and will advise strongly on the sometimes most absurd of precautions whilst handling the stuff and / or in case of an emergency *⁾, you on the other hand are on your own in judging the dose / effect ratio of any real accident that might occur:
the LD₅₀ values listed might help.

Nevertheless, "toxic" wasn't listed on any of the MSDS for KSCN i checked before I gave you my original piece of advice, nor was it mentioned in the more detailled information I did consult

regards

Ingo



*⁾
as one of my seniors once put it: they expect us to work clean and safe enough to be dressed in a Tuxedo, whilst at the same time they insist in that we'd better be wearing chemical warfare gear

[lrhea2]

Fair point, thanks for the input!

[lrhea2]

The only rule they have for us in my lab is that the shorts must come down below our knees and we can't wear open toed shoes and we must have goggles on.  There is no rule about pants or wearing lab coats or gloves.
I'm guessing this is the rule because either I am only in general chemistry and we aren't "playing around" with chemicals that are too dangerous yet, or my chemistry department needs to seriously revamp their safety protocol because it is way too lax.

As a side note, I did some calculations based on the molarity of KSCN we were using in lab yesterday, and assuming I did them correctly, I got approximately 1.94 x 10^-5 grams of KSCN on my skin and since the LD50 is 854mg/kg or 111g grams for me total body weight, I'd say the one drop on my skin will definitely not cause long term effects.  I would also say its a good sign that the tiny red spot I have on my leg from the drop hasn't gotten any worse in the 32 hours since I spilled it on me.  And who knows, the red spot could have very well been from a bug bite and been there before I spilled the KSCN and just didn't notice it until then.

Anyway, made for a good discussion on here and I enjoyed all of the input from everyone!

[magician4]

if it really was just one drop ( i.e [itex]\approx[/itex] 0.03 mL) and not one milliliter instead, you might still be even more unconcerned : this rather adds up to like 6*10^-7 gramms , total, in my calculation

  relax

regards


ingo

[Dan]

So while I agree that it is a good reference I still think it is better to get information from people who have experience actually working with the chemical in question.

Be that as it may, the main point is to do that before you start handling it.

[Archer]

While I agree that the MSDS can provide some good information, I tend to think that they over exaggerate some of the side effects.

it take it that you're living in the land of the free? the land where you aren't allowed to serve a hot and / or strong coffee (else you might get sued), where you find "objects in the rearview mirror are closer than they may appear" in every car,  "may contain traces of nuts" printed on the wrapping of the most unlikely products to contain them, and on and on and on.. ?

that's why


Hence, though the MSDS will list every known effect published (as it has the obligation to do), and will advise strongly on the sometimes most absurd of precautions whilst handling the stuff and / or in case of an emergency *⁾, you on the other hand are on your own in judging the dose / effect ratio of any real accident that might occur:
the LD₅₀ values listed might help.


*⁾
as one of my seniors once put it: they expect us to work clean and safe enough to be dressed in a Tuxedo, whilst at the same time they insist in that we'd better be wearing chemical warfare gear

You only have to look up the first aid measures for de-ionised water to see how absurd some MSDS are.

But these MSDS forms are designed, as magician4 quite rightly points out, to allow for the lowest common denominator of user. It also considers production level handling as well as lab bench.

I have heard some horror stories about industrial accidents with relatively safe materials.

I don't read every MSDS becuase I can tell that L-alanine is probably not going to do me too much harm, however potassium cyanate I have no clue about so I will not open this until I am au fait with any specific hazards.

Oh and @Magician4, I have seen a bag of "mixed nuts" which says "may contain traces of nuts" on it! Natural selection is no longer an issue for the morbidly stupid.

[magician4]

Oh and @Magician4, I have seen a bag of "mixed nuts" which says "may contain traces of nuts" on it!

You're joking man, aren't you ? pls. tell me that this is just a joke....

Natural selection is no longer an issue for the morbidly stupid.

to quote Einstein:
two things are infinite: the universe ,  and human stupidity.
with the universe, I'm not sure....



regards

Ingo

[DrCMS]

See this http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/26/monkey-nuts-withdrawn-warning-error