[Galejro]

First of all, Hi! I'm Galejro and I'm new around here and this is my first post on the forum. I am no chemist nor am interested in it for a hobby but now I need advice from those who got knowledge and expertise since I don't know any chemist personally. I guess this could be a fun spin-off from the usual subjects since it's completly theoretical subject.

I'm writing an epistolatory novel on vampires and the main theme of it is REALISTIC vampirism from chemical, physical, biological and evolutionary perspectives. Or to be precise a vampirism that does not exist only because evolution didn't went that direction like blue tigers or dwarf-size ostriges. So without further ado I DO NOT seek a formula to make skin sparkly in sunlight.

What is the problem?: I seek a chemical way of making vampires do that other thing in sunlight BURNING TO ASHES. I simply need a chemistry that within tissues exposed to sunlight or whatever sunlight produces uniquely can cause burning, decomposing, falling apart, ANYTHING LETHAL. Additionally a chemistry that makes the same Lethal reaction when tissues are exposed to any form of light.

Theories I already tried aplying:

Alcali metals theory - I do know humans contain Potassium and Sodium, but in compunds like table salt. The theory was that vampires could secrete pure Sodium or Potassium in glands of the cells, the glands would have been UV sensitive and upon exposure fall apart releasing Alcali metals into water rich tissues, which would start reacting and burning. But the Achilles heel of this theory is that the gland could be shattered and release metals for like a bajillion other reasons than sunlight. Vampires would have been walking hemophilia time bombs that could start burning randomly.

UV based decomoposition theory - I heard that UV can affect decomposition of living tissues and DNA (I mean no sh..t, taht's why over-sunbathing is bad for health). But this is something way to slow, I need seconds maybe minutes or hours at worst. Not years depending on how your bodies cancer treatment responds.

Albino theory - Albino people are kind of like vampires cause their skin contains no Melanin which is a bio-sunbathing lotion. That's why they get sunburns even in 15-20 minutes of exposure. But that's just an inconvenience, not a deadly threat. I would need a chemical backing to create a Suer-Anbinism, some compound or element that with UV light might be many times faster.

Now I am a chemical layman but I'll try to follow up with possible explanations.

[Yggdrasil]

There are a class of compounds known as phototoxins that can cause allergic reactions or blistering of the skin (phototoxic dermatitis) when exposed to light.  They work essentially by producing free radicals under UV irradiation (see this post for more information).  If vampires were to secrete such compounds on their skin, it could explain why exposure to sunlight is harmful to them (though I'm not quite sure it would be lethal).

[Galejro]

There are a class of compounds known as phototoxins that can cause allergic reactions or blistering of the skin (phototoxic dermatitis) when exposed to light.  They work essentially by producing free radicals under UV irradiation (see this post for more information).  If vampires were to secrete such compounds on their skin, it could explain why exposure to sunlight is harmful to them (though I'm not quite sure it would be lethal).

This sounds almost perfect. I need to do a deeper study on those phototoxins. If there is one particulairly dangerous phototoxin which cause poisoniong or simple tissue burning this can be the addional boost that I seek to create Super-Albinism. The combined lack of Melanin and phototoxins in the bloodstream and tissues can be enough to make lethal or next to lethal skin burns and internal poisoning perhaps in like 10-20 minutes of exposure, this should be enough to keep a vampire OUT of sunlight. And you helped me out since those chemicals can react with light itself, another thing that will fit for the novel, big thanks.

[Archer]

The sap from Giant Hogweed is a natural phototoxin so it is feasible that the chemicals  could be biosynthesised in the body.

The effects can be found here:

 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_mantegazzianum

You will need to do some research as to what the exact substances are that are responsible.

[Galejro]

If that is correct then I just need to find a good reason for these chemicals to be present and mass produced in a vampire organism. I mean who the hell would want to have them inside. It has to be something like ... I don't know, contents of urine. I mean human metabolism itself produces some nasty stuff and we have to flush it out with kidneys, because without a function those phototoxins would be getting a one-way ticket your bladder. (Yeah in case anyone wonders, NO my vampires will be alive and not undead, I mean, being dead and, at the same time, alive is a paradox)

The only options that are at this point available are:

-Self defence mechanism, these chemicals may make vampire tissues either poisonous or foul-tasting. As far as I'm concerned there are few animal species that are particulairly toxic like Fugu fish. I'm even surprised modern animals rarely evolve this mechanism

-Byproduct of bio-chemical reactions which are responcible for high regeneration rate or immortality and other vampire-metabolical functions I've figured out.

-Perhaps a catalyst for something.

[Archer]

Why does a plant make secondary metabolites (phytochemicals) ? The evolutionary theory is that they are a way of "using up" excess materials used in production of primary metabolites (necessary for life). Some of these secondary metabolites gave the plant an advantage in some way so the species thrived.

But these are plants, I don't know of any secondary metabolites in mamalian species as most mammals excrete unused biogenic materials in one form or another or store them as fats etc. for later use.

What you want, if there is such a thing, is a chemical which would give a vampire it's particular "strengths" that is metabolised into a phototoxic substance. In the same way the human body metabolises adrenaline to dihydroxymandeleic acid.

The problem is that you will have to suspend disbelief at some point or another as you have to invent a substance which makes a mammal "immortal" but is metabolised to a phototoxic substance.

Science can provide the metabolite for you, even a believable mechanism / pathway for its formation but you would have to retro-biosynthesise this into a fictional substance with fictional activity.

 

[Corribus]

David Dolphin has put forward the theory that the vampire myth originates from individuals who had porphyria, a genetic condition characterized by an inability to metabolize porphyrin pigments properly, which renders victims sensitive to light. I'm not sure if I buy it, but fiction has used worse premises.

Frankly, though, I find the trend in fiction during the last ten years or so to couch mythological beings in scientific terms to suck (no pun intended) the fun out of it all. Can't the supernatural just be supernatural?

[Galejro]

David Dolphin has put forward the theory that the vampire myth originates from individuals who had porphyria, a genetic condition characterized by an inability to metabolize porphyrin pigments properly, which renders victims sensitive to light. I'm not sure if I buy it, but fiction has used worse premises.

Frankly, though, I find the trend in fiction during the last ten years or so to couch mythological beings in scientific terms to suck (no pun intended) the fun out of it all. Can't the supernatural just be supernatural?

It all depends on ones point of view and taste. My point lies in the fact that so far there is no Darwinist Vampire story (all the others go for satanism, divinity or SUPER-VIRUS stuff), a gap I intend to fill.

Your point of view originates from the issue of explaining everything and ruining beauty of MYSTERY. I respect and understand that, and do not intend to ruin that in the book I work on. Mysteries will be all over the place, the discoveries and explanation of those mysteries will be a well earned prize. I want some 30/40% of what you see in the book a mystery. Besides I DO work on a comicbook based of a supernatural theory of vampirism so I go both ways http://www.mangamagazine.net/manga-and-comics/Vampire-the-Masquerade-The-Return-of-Caine/detail-page/4159?lang=en

[Borek]

My point lies in the fact that so far there is no Darwinist Vampire story

Have you read Blindsight by Peter Watts? Jukka Sarasti is a vampire, and the evolved one. I don't think he will react to sunlight the way you want, but at least Watts mentions why vampires evolved the way they did. Not that the book is about vampires, it is just a single, small thread near a seam.

[opsomath]

It all depends on ones point of view and taste. My point lies in the fact that so far there is no Darwinist Vampire story (all the others go for satanism, divinity or SUPER-VIRUS stuff), a gap I intend to fill.

China Mieville's Brucolac comes awfully close, with his haemophage/vampir kin.