[dumbsskull]

2,4-Dinitrophenol is not an amine so it will no behave as one. How will it behave? If I had it as its pure form how could I turn it into a salt? The hydrochloride salt for example.

[discodermolide]

You cannot make a hydrochloride salt from this compound.
What you can make is the sodium salt by treatment with sodium hydroxide.

[dumbsskull]

That's good to know so what would I need to do to convert it back to the free form? Would sulfuric acid work?

[discodermolide]

Yes sulphuric acid would work, as would hydrochloric, both dilute.

[magician4]

in addition:

as my impression is, that you know little about this substance: pls. be WARNED that this substance shows the Jolly Roger for a reason

... and pls. don't even think about modifying it in a certain direction: life is too precious to end it like that

take care, read the safety instructions, and stay away from explosives

regards

Ingo

[408]

in addition:

as my impression is, that you know little about this substance: pls. be WARNED that this substance shows the Jolly Roger for a reason

... and pls. don't even think about modifying it in a certain direction: life is too precious to end it like that

take care, read the safety instructions, and stay away from explosives

regards

Ingo

Firstly, if someone wanted picric acid, they would just nitrate all the way without stopping at dinitro. It is actually more difficult to stop at the dinitro than to go all the way to tri one-pot.

Secondly, implying that picric is a deathwish is simply false.  The low sensitivity makes it very safe for the laboratory preparation (industrially it has other problems...) in comparison to something much more sensitive such as RDX or PETN

Thirdly, the OP's question is worded in such a way that makes me worry in another direction.  Medically, salt formation is often done to increase bio availability, and hydrochloide salts of a basic drug are very common.

Medically, DNP has been used to decouple proton transport from the atp-synthesase in a mitochondria's membrane resulting in abuse as a metabolism booster for weight loss.  Naturally, as a nitrated aromatic this is insanely long-term toxic beyond the potential short term overdose (and death) ability.

So I would be more worried about the OP eating it than blowing himself up.  But this is just unwarranted speculation....

[magician4]

So I would be more worried about the OP eating it (...)

I wrote exactly this, didn't I ? :

pls. be WARNED that this substance shows the Jolly Roger for a reason

aside from this, with respect to picric:

I'm not familiar with the legal situation in, for example, the US, with respect for explosives.
In Europe however, picric acid is very strictly controlled in a way, that for a private person it is definitively impossible to buy it, have it , play around with it...
... and even trying to get it (like: asking in your local drug store for it) will bring the local cops down on you, and you'd be in a s***load of trouble.

so, what do those pyrokiddies do here? they're buying the nearest available precursor to picric, and try to modify it.
... with horrific results, every now and then, because on isolating it, they don't keep it wet ...

do I need to tell you more?

[Borek]

Magician: all you wrote suggests you are thinking about pyrotechnics application - even if that was not your intention, that's how I read your last two posts (and apparently I am not alone in that reading).

Just like 408 I am concerned about DNP use as a dietary aid. Perhaps my thinking is skewed by the fact few months ago young girl died in Warsaw after taking DNP to lose weight.

[408]

... with horrific results, every now and then, because on isolating it, they don't keep it wet ...

do I need to tell you more?

The majority of "pyrokiddy" accidents are from nitrate esters, organic peroxides, or low-explosive pyrotechnic mixtures like BP and flash.  Either highly impact and friction sensitive in the case of the first two, or high electrostatic sensitivity in the case of flash. 

Picric acid meets none of these criteria.  Picric acid does not need to be kept wet to be kept safely.  The dry stuff takes a decent hammer hit to go off and is not ESD sensitive to what the body can generate.  Even when hit with a hammer the detonation does not propagate beyond the exact metal-metal contact area.  It is one of the more safe explosives for preparation, beyond the toxicity of the nitration fumes as it likes to release NO2.  The cult of "picric acid is highly sensitive and should not be handled dry" has no basis in fact, and it is only through the general lack of explosives knowledge in current academia that this has been propagated. 

I do not know what legality has to do with the safety of a material

The nearest available precursor to picric acid is actually aspirin, easily turned to picric in one pot with only a trip to any major hardware store.  (or at least one could 10 years ago, not sure about now, might need two stores) Any kiddy wanting to make it can through easier means, unless they have a hard on for extraneous, less efficient syntheses. 


Take a look at a reference like the encyclopedia of explosives and related items, or Urbanski's chemistry and technology of explosives and you can compare sensitivity information in terms of impact, friction, bullet impact, etc. and find it is only a bit more sensitive to TNT.  How sensitive is TNT?  You can shoot TNT with a bullet and it will not explode.  Picric being a bit more sensitive takes a faster caliber round to go off, a low velocity round will not cause detonation.   

[Babcock_Hall]

There were deaths and other problems (such as cataracts) related to ingestion of dinitrophenol back in the 1930s if I am not mistaken.  Nasty stuff.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17475379
http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/4/566.long

[dumbsskull]

I'm concerned about the explosive properties of this chemical. I will be working with some in the near future and plan to sublimate some to test for purity. I also want to experiment with converting it to and from the sodium salt with sodium hydroxide. Acetone with be used as a solvent for both forms of DNP. Sodium hydroxide might be contaminating it. Does any of this ring a bell?

[dumbsskull]

Quick question. I took a solution of the DNP sodium salt that I aquired and when I dripped it into hcl a precipitate formed but it is clear or "off white" crystals. Is that DNP?

It definitely smells like dnp after going into concentrated hcl but it lost post of the yellow color.

The yellow color stained my hand like with my previous experience with it. Will upload pictures.

[408]

picric acid does the same thing.  When recrystallized from the correct solvent it appears almost colorless in the solid state.  That DNP does this as well does not surprise me.