[Generic123]

Hello this is my first post I was given this websites name from a friend and was wondering if theres anyone out there who can help me understand exactly what are these chemicals I know that they have a very close relation if not the same thing but I need in plain english what and who deals with these chems? Thank you very much

[savoy7]

Ergotamine tartrate is used in production of some organic molecules, for example, LSD.

This forum has set rules, beware of how this post progresses.


The alkaloids were found in fungi called ergot.  That's how they got the name.  Ergoline is a common name for the ring structure found in these alkaloids.  There are a couple of different "classes" of molecules that have this ergoline ring structure.

[Generic123]

Thank you, my intrest isn't illegal I had read something about it having three forms and used for much more things than just LSD. I read it is used in treatment with migrain is that true? and if so how?

[limpet chicken]

Ergotamine (as the tartrate salt) is used in some migraine medications, Cafergot is the main brand name I believe, contains caffeine and ergotamine.

http://neo.pharm.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/drug-info/img/ergotamine.gif Here is the structure of ergotamine itself.

There are a while mix of ergoline alkaloids present in some natural sources also, morning glory (Ipomoea) seeds, Rivea Corymbosa, and a comparitively large amount is present in hawaiian baby woodrose (Argyreia nervosa), all these plants contain a varied mixture of ergolines, including d-lysergic acic amide, here's a link, its more aimed at recreational users of ergine containg seeds, but it does have a breakdown of the various quantities/ratios of alkaloids found in the differing species, if thats any use.

http://www.clearwhitelight.org/hatter/lsainfo.htm (Oh. and AFAIK, Argyria Nervosa seeds contain no cyanogenic glycosides, but rather, its an inherent property of LSA to cause nausea in many people if ingested.


By three forms, you may be thinking of the various stereoisomers of LSA/LSD, its a molecule large enough, for the stereochemistry, to become a pain in the arse sometimes.

The reason ergotamine is used for treating migraines, is that its a potent vasocontrictor, and vasodilation is one cause of migraine headaches, the fungus Claviceps Purpurea (ergot, hence the name) caused a lot of problems in the middle ages, as it is parasitic on rye and other grain species, it grows best by far on rye though, when the parasitised grain was processed and eaten as bread, it caused a poisoning known as St.Anthony's fire, andthought to be a punishment from above, as it took two forms, one primarily displaying gangrene, caused by the vasoconstrictor effects of the ergoline alkaloids in the contaminated bread, the other, a hallucinogenic form of poisoning, which quite probably was the worse of the two, as not only would you be stuck in a bad trip, but in those days, it might well have got you burnt at the stake as a witch.


Bread roll, anyone?  

[Clerlic]

Is it possible, with dedication, internet as a source for information and mediocre finances, to achieve a certain level of knowledge and skill for chemistry which will allow me to prepare substances of that complexity? My experience in chemistry is limited to school classes which didn't interest me much back then. And how long should it take with 2 months of mostly free time?

Thanks.

[Clerlic]

I'm sorry, did i post in the wrong section?

[pantone159]

Is it possible, with dedication, internet as a source for information and mediocre finances, to achieve a certain level of knowledge and skill for chemistry which will allow me to prepare substances of that complexity? My experience in chemistry is limited to school classes which didn't interest me much back then. And how long should it take with 2 months of mostly free time?

If you are asking about synthesizing ergot alkaloids, I would think that would be quite difficult, and not really possible given your constraints.

[Clerlic]

Damn I see there is no chance for me to learn how to produce Lysergic Acids at home.

[Borek]

Good for you, you don't risk problems with authorities.

[Clerlic]

No-one would've found out considering the area and country where i live in.
EDIT: Besides, who said i was going to create that particular substance? I guess i'll have to convince my brother to become a chemist.

[limpet chicken]

Why go for ergotamine tartrate anyway, ET is watched, for easily guessable reasons, a relevant pieve of information you might find amusing, for your study only of course, is that the ergot species Claviceps Paspali, can produce large yields of lysergic acid propanolamide in vitro, if its lysergide migraine treatmends your interested in, you could of course, produce said propanolamide, then convert to lysergic acid itself, by boiling in tolly.

Do remember many compounds prepared from lysergic acid, are heat, moisture and light sensitive, as well as extremely sensitive to chlorinated water.


Off topic, as we aren't talking about lysergic acid alkylamides/LAD derivatives, but apparently, totally pure LSD, emits flashes of light, when shaken in the dark, but what I don't know is why, can anyone elucidate further?

[AWK]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migraine#Ergot_alkaloids
and links therein