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Topic: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product  (Read 7213 times)

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Offline Rutherford

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Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« on: February 18, 2014, 01:53:42 PM »
The problem is attached. What will be the major product of the reaction D? The first structure corresponds to the usual condensation product, but I suspect that something else will happen here. I don't see a way for the third structure to be produced so I exclude it. How to decide between the second and the fourth structure?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2014, 02:01:45 PM »
The second structure seems to be very strained. I would go for the β-lactam.
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Offline discodermolide

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2014, 02:08:25 PM »
The NMR also fits quite well to the last structure.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2014, 02:13:34 PM »
Yeah, the strain is probably causing instability of structure 2. I will try to work out which hydrogen would correspond to which line in the NMR.

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 02:14:41 PM »
That should not be too difficult ;D
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 03:31:07 PM »
I did it, but I suspect whether it is correct. The two hydrogen in alpha position to the carbonyl group have 2.6-2.9 ppm but that seems too small, as they are so close to oxygen. In the hydrazyde the alpha hydrogen has a ppm of 9.0. How?

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 07:20:35 AM »
I think that these are disatereotopic hydrogens, not in the same plane with the oxygen atom.

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2014, 08:24:29 AM »
They are diastereotopic one is up the other down.
The imine H is at 9.6. Just like an aldehyde.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2014, 08:48:10 AM »
Perfect, I think I understand this. Thanks for the help.

Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2014, 04:15:43 AM »
Why don't the 5.5 and 9 ppm protons split each others signal (spectrum of the hydrazyde)?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2014, 08:12:59 AM »
Sorry don't follow your question.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2014, 09:40:45 AM »
Why aren't they coupling?

Offline discodermolide

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2014, 11:23:55 AM »
This compound?
O=C(NN)/C=C/C1=CC=CC=C1

I don't think the alpha proton to the C=O is at 9 ppm. In the spectrum you posted where did this come from? My ChemDraw predicts a doublet for both the protons on the C=C.
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Offline Rutherford

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2014, 01:46:05 PM »
I found that I got the hydrazyde structure wrong, it's the attached one. Now to what protons should the singlets be assigned?

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Re: Ketone-hydrazide condensation product
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2014, 01:57:34 PM »
How about the two NH protons. The signals are quite broad.
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