December 28, 2024, 03:20:53 AM
Forum Rules: Read This Before Posting


Topic: Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis  (Read 5891 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Simonauv

  • Guest
Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« on: April 03, 2006, 06:40:01 AM »
I have just read on an aquarium forum that someone is using crushed coral (CaCO3) as a buffer to maintain an acidic pH in an aquarium that is also injected with CO2. The idea of the CO2 injection is that it will boost the rate of photosynthesis in the plants (light is also boosted). The overall idea is to get the plants growing fast enough that ions such as nitrates are consumed at a fast rate to prevent growth of lower plants like algae which as less efficient competitors for nutrients than higher plants. Anyway, back to the question... Reading this and thinking about it for a while a few things that I thought I had a handle on started to make less sense. I'm probably just confusing myself here but here's the gist of it.

When CO2 dissolves in water there is no such thing as aqueous CO2 is there? It forms H2CO3 in an equilibrium reaction system as follows:

CO2(g)+ H20(l) <-> H2CO3(aq)

And adding more CO2 to the reaction system will drive it to the right making more H2CO3 which is why the pH drops because you are just increasing the H+ conc. That's right so far isn't it? Why then, do tanks with CO2 injection show greater plant growth than tanks without it? It doesn't make sense. Where do aquatic plants get their CO2 for photosynthesis? Now if CaCO3 is added as a solid as crushed coral, it would not actually dissolve would it because both the carbonic acid and the calcium carbonate have carbonate ions so no replacement will occur. Correct? Or is water acting as an acid in this case and the lower pH increases its solubility in the water? If so it would kind of act like a buffer wouldn't it because CO32- ions would push the Rx back to the left and CO2 is continually being pumped into the system as well so the forward and backward Rx would be equal until the coral was completely dissolved??? Now I'm just confusing myself... Is anyone able to explain this to me? I am not seeing how the crushed coral can actually act as a buffer to help maintain an acidic pH. To me it looks like it will either have no effect or will just increase pH rather than maintain a constant pH.

TIA

Simon
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 06:45:25 AM by Simonauv »

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27887
  • Mole Snacks: +1816/-412
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re:Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2006, 07:59:16 AM »
When CO2 dissolves in water there is no such thing as aqueous CO2 is there? It forms H2CO3 in an equilibrium reaction system as follows:

CO2(g)+ H20(l) <-> H2CO3(aq)

As you wrote - it is an equilibrium. Thus there is CO2 present in water.

Quote
And adding more CO2 to the reaction system will drive it to the right making more H2CO3 which is why the pH drops because you are just increasing the H+ conc. That's right so far isn't it? Why then, do tanks with CO2 injection show greater plant growth than tanks without it? It doesn't make sense. Where do aquatic plants get their CO2 for photosynthesis?

From the equilibrium concentration of CO2, you forgot about that factor thus your reasoning is partially faullty.

Quote
Now if CaCO3 is added as a solid as crushed coral, it would not actually dissolve would it because both the carbonic acid and the calcium carbonate have carbonate ions so no replacement will occur. Correct? Or is water acting as an acid in this case and the lower pH increases its solubility in the water? If so it would kind of act like a buffer wouldn't it because CO32- ions would push the Rx back to the left and CO2 is continually being pumped into the system as well so the forward and backward Rx would be equal until the coral was completely dissolved??? Now I'm just confusing myself... Is anyone able to explain this to me? I am not seeing how the crushed coral can actually act as a buffer to help maintain an acidic pH. To me it looks like it will either have no effect or will just increase pH rather than maintain a constant pH.

Adding CO2 lowers pH:

CO2 + H2O <-> H+ + HCO3-

(in fact I could write this reaction as two steps, with H2CO3 as intermediary, but it will not change a thing). But in the presence of CaCO3 situation is a little bit more complicated, as what happens is that part of CaCO3 dissolves:

CaCO3 + CO2 + H2O -> Ca2+ + 2HCO3-

There are CO2 (or H2CO3) and HCO3- present in the solution. This is an acid and its conjugate base, thus you have a buffer solution, with pH close to 7. CO32- concentration is neglectable in this system.

There is no risk of dissolving all coral as the solubility of CaCO3 and Ca(HCO3)2 is rather low and the solubility of CO2 is not that large too (less then 2g/L in normal presure and 20 deg C).
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 08:06:47 AM by Borek »
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Simonauv

  • Guest
Re:Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2006, 08:23:58 AM »
Thanks Borek - can I ask what form the CO2 takes in the water? Also should have mentioned that temps are generally 27 - 30 degrees Celcius in these setups.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 08:38:39 AM by Simonauv »

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27887
  • Mole Snacks: +1816/-412
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re:Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2006, 08:36:57 AM »
None special - it is just molecule. However, the quilibrium between CO2, H2CO3 and HCO3-/H+ is a dynamic one, so every CO2 molecule changes its state many times per second.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Simonauv

  • Guest
Re:Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2006, 09:26:40 AM »
Quick question before I put up something else to make sure I've got this...

Is the CO2 -> H2CO3 <-> H30+ + HCO3- equilibrium and the CaCO3 reaction two separate reactions or are they combined into one reaction (does that make sense? I have written something with them separated but thought I'd better ask if that's right first)?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 09:31:42 AM by Simonauv »

Simonauv

  • Guest
Re:Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2006, 09:48:57 AM »
will check tomorrow -need sleep now... (1:19am here)

Offline Borek

  • Mr. pH
  • Administrator
  • Deity Member
  • *
  • Posts: 27887
  • Mole Snacks: +1816/-412
  • Gender: Male
  • I am known to be occasionally wrong.
    • Chembuddy
Re:Aquarium chemistry - buffers + photosynthesis
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2006, 11:05:26 AM »
Depends on the point of view. In fact there are several processes going on:

CO2 + H2O <-> H2CO3 (1)

H2CO3 <-> H+ + HCO3- (2)

HCO3- <-> H+ + CO32- (3)

CaCO3 <-> Ca2+ + CO32- (4)

H2O <-> H+ + OH- (5)

What you observe is a combination of these. Each of these processes has its own equilibrium constant, but you may combine these ractions and calculate new equilibrium constants using ones already known.
ChemBuddy chemical calculators - stoichiometry, pH, concentration, buffer preparation, titrations.info

Sponsored Links