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Topic: Going from Inorganic to Organic  (Read 5321 times)

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Rafski

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Going from Inorganic to Organic
« on: January 12, 2015, 06:17:36 PM »
Hi,

I'm very new to chemistry, but I cannot get past this question...

This has been probably asked a many times but I'm unable to properly find the answer to my question - maybe please link me? My question is if it's possible to make organic molecules from inorganic.

In the youtube video that I've posted below, you can see Prof Roald Hoffman stating that in 1828 it was discovered that the building blocks of all matter (inorganic and organic) are the same, atoms. But if it is all the same, why is it that we are unable to create organic molecules from inorganic? Aside from atoms, such as carbon (C), hydrogen (H), oxygen (O), nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), and others... what makes something organic so special? Is this a controversial question as it may go against many religious beliefs and that is why it is not so readily outlined in textbooks?

Video of Prof Roald Hoffman

Wöhler Synthesis
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:22:13 PM by Rafski »

Offline Borek

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Re: Going from Inorganic to Organic
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 06:51:51 PM »
My question is if it's possible to make organic molecules from inorganic.

Yes, it is. Wöhler synthesis that you linked to tells you it is possible, so I am not sure why you ask.
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Offline Arkcon

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Re: Going from Inorganic to Organic
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 08:01:48 PM »
Is this a controversial question as it may go against many religious beliefs and that is why it is not so readily outlined in textbooks?

No.  It was controversial and unknown a century ago, when people believed that organic chemistry required some sort of "vital essence" only living things possessed.   But no one who uses medicines, or plastics can remotely still believe that sort of thing.  The line is increasingly blurred.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Archy12345

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Re: Going from Inorganic to Organic
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 09:47:23 PM »
My favorite example of making organic compounds from inorganic compounds is reacting carbon powder with lime stone to make calcium carbide then adding water to make ethyne.

Rafski

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Re: Non-living and Living
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 11:45:30 PM »
My question is if it's possible to make organic molecules from inorganic.

Yes, it is. Wöhler synthesis that you linked to tells you it is possible, so I am not sure why you ask.

I oversaw the fact that urea was an organic molecule. I assumed that organic meant that it was a from a living-form, but I guess it doesn't mean that. It leads my question to go further.

What is the difference between the chemistry of atoms and molecules in living things versus non-living things?

I started to read a section of Felix Kaufmann's Theory and Method in the Social Sciences, but I found it very complicated for my understanding.

“During the early decades of the nineteenth century it was asserted that chemists would never be able to produce organic matter artificially (synthetically). A special vital force was thought to be required, an agent the creation of which is beyond human capacity. This theory was refuted in 1828 when Wohler produced synthetic urea. Soon other organic substances, like acetic acid and alcohol, and recently, hemin, a principal component of hemoglobin, were produced synthetically.

Nevertheless, vitalist did not admit defeat even though they had to make suitable modifications of their thesis. They now argued that the fact of synthetic production of organic substances in the chemical laboratory was to be conceded, but that the manner in which these synthese occurred was entirely different from their production in nature. The classic example adduced was the transformation of carbon dioxide into sugar, of particular importance in plant life. From the fact that yeast was indispensable in the process it was concluded that it contained the vital force required to start the process. But this assumption also proved untenable. Zymase, isolated from dead yeast, is able to bring about fermentation. It is now established that catalytic effects are involved, and, although the role of catalytic agents in chemistry is in need of further explanation, every chemist knows that catalytic processes are by no means confined to the vital sphere.

Besides this first biochemical group of vitalists, there is a second group that supports its thesis by reference to the specific mode of functioning of living bodies or their constituents, cells. They stress nutrition, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli. In opposing them the mechanists tried to provide mechanical analogues of these processes. To this end, great ingenuity was exercised in the construction of ‘artificial cells’, hardly distinguishable from natural cells with respect to observable moments. The analogies, to be sure, cannot be carried very far, because the vital processes copied in this way certainly do exist in different interconnections, but they are not without significance, since they caution the vitalist against hastily claiming certain kinds of phenomena as peculiar to life processes.

We cannot discuss in detail here the vitalists’ various other arguments, which are intended to call attention to the special features of life processes, for example, their irreversibility or the phenomenon of death. But way of summary we can state that as far as the authoritative vitalists among biologists and philosophers are concerned, this kind of argument has receded more and more into the background, as almost every assertion of this kind was experimentally or theoretically refuted by the mechanist opponents. By contrast - and here we return to our point of departure - more recent vitalism does not see the characteristics of life in certain individual phenomena, but rather in complexes of phenomena to which, accordingly only a teleological approach can do justice. As the most eminent representative of this neovitalist tendency (which for reasons to be indicated immediately below can also be called psycho-vitalism) we should mention Deiesch, whose well-known arguments for the autonomy of life form the core of vitalist doctrine today.”

Rafski

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Re: Living and Non-living
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 11:49:40 PM »

Offline Borek

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Re: Going from Inorganic to Organic
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2015, 09:21:54 AM »
I don't know what to comment on. Vitalism is long dead. Classification of chemicals and chemistry as "organic" and "inorganic" is artificial, and could be easily abandoned. We don't, as it helps organize things, but as with every classification system it could be replaced by another, using another arbitrary set of rules.
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Rafski

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Re: Going from Inorganic to Organic
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 04:23:00 AM »
Classification of chemicals and chemistry as "organic" and "inorganic" is artificial, and could be easily abandoned. We don't, as it helps organize things, but as with every classification system it could be replaced by another, using another arbitrary set of rules.

Thanks Borek, that's actually perfect. I just wanted to hear from someone that knew this stuff. I've returned back to school after a long time to study science (I have a BA in Communication) with the intension to work in healthcare. When I started reading about molecules, and then cells, it just opened me up to a lot of questions... one of them I guess was, what is "life". I thought that it could be answered on the atomic / molecular level.

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