[Limpet Chicken]

Hello again, I have been running an idea through my head for a while now concerning the manufacture of an OTC methylating agent for use in organic synthesis,

Does anyone here know of a way to remove the pigment from ballpen ink, maybe distillation would suffice, but I don't know if thiodyglycol (used as the carrier) is volatile enough having no experience in distilling glycols of any sort.

Could anybody think of a way to seperate the ink from the carrier fluid, if that is, distillation won't work.

Thanks again.

[Mitch]

filter paper and water should do it.

[Limpet Chicken]

Thanks for the quick reply Mitch, anyway, I was thinking along the lines of this:

Seperation of thiodyglycol and gassing with HCl to produce Bis(2-chloroethyl)sulfide,
Then adding methylamine to produce a hybrid between nitrogen mustard one, with it's ethylamine group instead of the sulfide group on Bis(2-chloroethyl)sulfide, and the russian ziakov agent with a methyl group attatched instead of the sulfur group.

My guess is that this compound, most likely bis(2-chloroethyl)methylamide would prove to be an EXTREMELY agressive methylating agent, in a way, the LiALH4 of the methylating agents if you will excuse my somewhat shaky analogy.

[Limpet Chicken]

I just tried filtration on the ink, a fair amount of pigment carries through the filter paper (OK I used loo roll as I currently have no filter paper) I now have a suspension of pigment particles is water, but I can distintly see a slightly more viscous layer floating above the surface of the water layer, but I know of no way to test for thiodiglycol or mustard agents apart from the "oh dear where did my arm go" test LOL

Anyway, I will need to dry it even if it is my thiodiglycol to prevent hydrolysis of the finished article, will drying over NaOH/anhydrous MgSO4 do the trick do you think?

[Limpet Chicken]

Damn! the slightly viscous appearing layer has disappeared back into solution leaving me with a stinking purple muck.

Distillation is probably the answer here, does anyone know if thiodiglycol forms an azeotrope with water? The thiodiglycol has to be anhydrous for my experiment or the sulfur mustard that is the precursor will hydrolyse to short-lived and unstable hemi-mustard which would ruin my experiment  before it could even begin.

If all attempts at isolating thiodiglycol fail, I might decide to go via thionyl chloride, or maybe ethyl sulfide.

[Limpet Chicken]

Hmmm, it looks like my solution is going to need filtering through something like activated carbon as the ink particles are so tiny, but the question is, does thiodiglycol get absorbed onto active charcoal?

Hmmm, can anyone see any reason I couldnt just gas the ink as is, and then distill off the formed sulfur mustard? (chemical reason that is, I can almost see someone getting worried about the idea of  DIY distilled mustard LOL

[Donaldson Tan]

it's very amusing to see somebody replying to his own post on his own thread.

u r a really an industrious chemist thou..  

[Limpet Chicken]

Thanks Geo, anyways, I now have an dilute aq. solution of thiodiglycol with only the faintest trace of blue s#*$, yet that stong smell is still there so I know I have my goodies in there hiding somewhere, does anybody here have access to better literature than do I, and maybe would bee kind enough to look up and see of thiodiglycol (dihydroxyethyl sulfide) forms an azeotrope in aqueous solution?

If it does then I really can't be fusses breaking the azeotrope with unholy mixes of carcinogenic chlorinated solvents etc (yeah that's rich isn't it, coming from a guy after some crazy homemade version of a messed up russian blister agent  :'>)

I might just have a try at slowly adding plaster of paris to absorb the water, sort of like is done to purify chloropicrin...

[Mitch]

plaster of paris will work out fine.

[Limpet Chicken]

Thanks Mitch, nice one, such a pain though, having to process and extract from ballpoint pens, I might not usually go to such lengths, but I can hardly go and order the 2L of the stuff that I want really LOL

Hmmmm...what could a teenager possibly want with two liters of thiodiglycol...he must bee making ballpens or something...

I DON'T THINK!!!! ROFLMFAO!

[vulcan2.0]

I think I would of tried heating the ink to separate it. Or would that work? I dont know but i'd think it would be worth a try.

[Limpet Chicken]

I thought of distillation, I might just try it actually, unfortunately, my distillation kit consists of an empty propane tank and a hose, but I might bee getting a proper setup when I have the money.

Meanwhile, it's back to mustard gas ala ghetto with methylamine seasoning on the side....

[vulcan2.0]

I'd just use a candle.

[Limpet Chicken]

I don't wuite see what you mean by using a candle, if I were to heat an open container of ink, most likely all the thiodiglycol go byebye and me be left with a nasty stinking mess/and/or/ink powder.

I dont see how heating alone could cause it to seperate out  and make the pigment itself precipitate out or anything.

[vulcan2.0]

I see your point but I dont think it would be hard to make something that would work faily well. :borg: