[xchcui]

Hi.

I would like to know if those rubber hoses in the car coolant system,tend to collect on their inside surface:
calcium, magnesium or silicates during the years?

I used an hose-coupler to connect a new hose with an old hose and since i saw some tiny particles in the head tank,after the installation,i wonder if it from my connecting scratch action.
The old hose was experience:
1)100% Hard tap water that was flowing through the hose several years(lets ignore the damage that it done to the metal parts)so there are magnesium and calcium.
2)Traditional silicates green coolant was flowing through the hose another several years, so there is the silicates material.
So i wonder if the rubber hoses tend to accumulate silicates(sand)calcium or magnesium on there inner surface during the years?

Thanks in advance.

[Arkcon]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water#Effects_of_hard_water

Its is trivial to find out online that the effects you've experienced are exactly one of the problems minerals dissolved in water poses to machines using coolant over the long term.

You should not use tap water for your car or any other industrial purpose.

[xchcui]

It is well known that tap water doesn't good for engine parts.I only mentioned that to describe that tap water was flowing through the system several years.After that,an high quality coolant(silicate based additive)was flowing through the system for another several years.
I just would like to know and understand:
If the material that was scretched from the inner old hose and get into the coolant was the calcium/magnesium?
or maybe it was silicates?
The all idea is to understand if the rubber hose tend to accumulate just calcium/magnesium on it,just silicates on it,none of them or them both?
Lime scale is small problem but silicates(sand)is bigger one.

[xchcui]

Anyone?

[xchcui]

Maybe i asked the question in a wrong way.
This is not a simple question and it is refer to rubber not to metals.
In wikipedia they are not talking about rubber.
I try again.
Do silicates particles that present in coolant(silicate based additives coolant)tend to accumulate on rubber hoses?

[Arkcon]

I suspect silicates don't accumulate, because silicates are meant to prevent any scale from forming.  That's why they're added.  I also don't believe they appear as "scale."  So I'm at a complete loss to understand your description, except for as I noted, you shouldn't use anything less than distilled water as a coolant.

[xchcui]

Silicates start to drop out from the coolant after 2-3 years(time to change the coolant) and they are accumulated in the radiator,heater core etc.

see:http://www.sancarlosradiator.com/antifreeze_coolant.htm
(at the middle of the page,with photos)

I try to figure out what substance i was scretching from the old hose.(AND THAT IS THE MAIN QUESTION).
Was it calcium/magnesium substance?
Was it silicate substance?
THis is the reason that i asked if they tend to accumulate on rubber,in order to cancel one of the possibilities.
An high quality coolant is flowing for several years
in the system,but again,i mention that once upon a time someone used a hard water in that cooling system and also silicate based additive coolant later.
And the hose that i am talking about was connected from those days until now.
So,what could be the substance that was scretched from the inner surface of the hose?

[Intanjir]

Seems unlikely that silicate scale would adhere as strongly to rubber as it would to the outer oxide layer of a metal (particularly aluminium) but I don't see any reason why it couldn't also form on rubber or on most anything for that matter.

[Borek]

I try to figure out what substance i was scretching from the old hose.(AND THAT IS THE MAIN QUESTION).
Was it calcium/magnesium substance?
Was it silicate substance?

There are no such things as "calcium substance", "magnesium substance" or "silicate substance".

Scale is typically a mixture of magnesium carbonate and calcium carbonate, magnesium silicate and calcium silicate, iron (II) carbonate/silicate, iron (III) carbonate/silicate, plus some basic iron (II/III) carbonates/silicates.

Then, the "rubber" doesn't have to be always the same thing - there are many elastomers used for hoses and their properties are different.

Thus, there will be no one answer covering all situations, which is one of the reasons why you won't get a definitive answer to your question. Some kinds of scale will deposit on some types of elastomers, some will form on others, there are probably types of elastomers that are never covered by a scale and so on.

I am not saying that to pretend I know what the detailed answers are, just to signal why you may have troubles getting any answer.

[xchcui]

Hi,Intanjir.

So,if silicate scale can adhere to rubber hose(car cooling system rubber hose that was made before 20+ years) and also magnesium/calcium,i assume that when i pushed the hose-coupler into the old hose i scretched,besides rubber particles,also,mixture  of calcium/magnesium and silicates particles(or chemical mixture combination as Borek mentioned),and,unfortunately,they got into the coolant after that.(since i forgot to wash the inner of the hose before i reconnect it).
Do you think that i should do again flush because of that or it is negligible?
Some more details:
The cooling system was after a flush.
I refilled the cooling system with clean and new coolant after i reconnected the old hose and the particles were washed from the old hose into the cooling system.The length of the scretching movment,when i pushed the hose-coupler into the old rubber hose,was about 31mm with 18mm hose diameter.

[xchcui]

Intanjir.
From my other thread i saw that you are an expert about the coolant subject,so i will very appreciate if you can help me here.
Only you and Borek replied to my question,but,as i understood from Borek,this subject is not in his expertise area.(though he always like to help members).
I will try to ask the question in other way.
Does a new coolant has the ability/properties to absorb small quantity of contaminations(like silicates
etc.) in that way that they won't do damage in the system like abrasion?

[Intanjir]

I dunno, I'm not really an expert on anything though I play around with silica and am often interested in engaging on the topic.

Pure silica does not quickly dissolve even in conditions much more extreme then would ever been seen inside a radiator. I would not expect small amounts of calcium and magnesium to radically change this. So even if fresh antifreeze had some extra room to dissolve some of the silica I would not expect this to happen at all quickly. In the absence of any kind of mechanism to trap solid particles, I would expect the scale to recirculate until it was physically abraded and reduced to particles small enough to permanently adhere somewhere. I have no idea if this would result in a significant enough erosion of the engine.

[xchcui]

Thanks Intanjir.
Your explanation cleared up my doubts.
Maybe you don't consider yourself as an expert,but your answers,as i see them,are very informative and relevant.
Thanks.