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Topic: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?  (Read 8074 times)

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Offline dylanail

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Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« on: October 01, 2015, 04:44:54 PM »
Hi, I am looking for an instantly evaporating solvent that PVOH is soluble in. It is for a project that involves shooting it out of a vessel with CO2 so it dries instantly, or near-instantly (±1.5 seconds) Thanks!  ;D
~Dylan~

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 05:31:39 AM »
Hi,

the evaporation times relates with the size more than with the solvent (methanol?). Heat helps too.

If you achieve to evaporate the solvent so quickly, expect a porous solid.

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2015, 05:04:52 AM »
I need it in the form of a thin, rope-like strand. There is an extruder with 8 holes that will touch a block to adhere the material to it, and then spin rapidly while moving farther away to sort of weave it into a cord. Maybe a gel?
~Dylan~

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2015, 05:07:08 AM »
Also, it will be shot out using compressed CO2.
~Dylan~

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2015, 04:10:30 PM »
If the strands can be very thin, maybe - there is not limit in this direction. Methanol is volatile and heat helps. But I expect a porous polymer then.

One standard method would be instead to extrude the hot polymer. Enough pressure lets it flow even though it's far from molten, so under its own weight it deforms little enough. Just like injected plastic parts are ejected immediately from the mold without cooling first.

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2015, 12:54:32 AM »
Ok. The formula keeps changing with this. There will also be Graphene Oxide in the polymer. I have done research and read that only 1.8% Graphene Oxide increases the tensile strength 150%. This will have to be as strong as possible. I was also thinking of using maybe Magnesium Oxide to help it expand more. Also, the CO2 is necessary because it may have to spray across small distances. Also, I was thinking of using 3 ball bearings confined in a tube, with the liquid shot out of that because it will be smoother, reduce jams, and give lots of small crevices for the liquid to extrude from, variating the stream size.
~Dylan~

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 06:41:38 AM »
Are you trying to make Spidey rope (as in Spiderman)?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 06:54:07 AM by billnotgatez »

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2015, 10:33:21 AM »
Hah, I wish...  :) Nope, It's for a school chemistry project.
~Dylan~

Offline Intanjir

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2015, 11:18:37 AM »
Is using PVOH an absolute requirement? It has very few effective solvents. The hydrogen bonding is much too strong and so effective solvents end up needing strong hydrogen bonding as well. Not much is likely to work besides water and ionic liquids neither of which are suitable. Methanol is perhaps the best bet but not if it takes a large amount of solvent to dissolve a small amount of PVOH.

How about just a partially hydrolyzed PVAc? PVAc boasts many more solvents and there is a continuum of polymers between it and PVOH.

How much of it has to evaporate in '±' 1.5 seconds? Does it just need strength to hold its own weight or does it need to be entirely gone? Do you get extra credit if it all evaporates within minus 1.5s of instantly?  ;D
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 11:37:11 AM by Intanjir »

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 01:54:57 PM »
I definitely considered the PVAc, but it was too weak. The strength of PVOH is what I need in this case. And partially hydrolyzed PVOH would probably be a good idea.

Sorry, I don't know why I used that symbol. ::) I meant ~1.5 seconds. Also, It needs the strength to hold its own weight by ~1 second (got it right this time), and needs to be entirely gone ~2 seconds later.
~Dylan~

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2015, 01:55:52 PM »
Is there an additive that would make it more easily evaporated?
~Dylan~

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2015, 02:20:33 PM »
I did some more research, and it looks like water would be an appropriate solvent. Would this work?
~Dylan~

Offline Enthalpy

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 03:29:11 PM »
Water for very thin wires and at heat? Methanol definitely evaporates faster. You can experiment with a brush, PVOH in solution, and a piece of flat metal. I'd say: water at room temperature takes >1.5s in film thickness. Additive to evaporate faster: no, I don't think so.

You mention graphene oxide: do you realize that such materials are lab curiosities made in sub-nothing amounts? Standard reinforcements include graphite fibres, which are industrially available and can be very short.

PVOH is a bad construction material because it dissolves in water, including sweat. And I fear you overestimate its mechanical strength.

Did you consider polystyrene, or less brittle ABS, dissolved in acetone? At least these are sound materials. Beware of explosive solvent vapours.

Offline dylanail

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Re: Instantly Evaporating Polyvinyl Alcohol Solvent?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 01:45:50 PM »
What about using boric acid to crosslink the PVOH?
~Dylan~

Offline dylanail

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Evaporating Chloroform?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 01:17:55 AM »
What is a solvent that would evaporate chloroform the second it touches air?
~Dylan~

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