[constant thinker]

I would just like to note that methanol production is dependant on methane production. Industrially, methanol is made from methane.

Hopefully the entire human population will figure something out.

[Unsichtbar]

Are there any Brazilians out there?  Is this true?  Do the majority of households have electricity in Brazil?  If any country really wants to switch away from gasoline, it requires a competent government with a long range plan.  The long range plan would involve building an infrastructure that would enable the transition.  I don't see it happening in the US.  The US government is a corrupt, inefficient wasteland that can't even mandate the production (soon to be exclusively importation) of ligher automobiles for increased fuel economy. 

I'm a Brazilian boy...
There are many households without electricity above all in the countryside and the North.
Recently I also watch a TV show about US economy. I was horrified about one statistic: Americans consume 7 times more fuel automobile that Brazilians.

[constant thinker]

MMMM gasoline. 

It's probably because of our big vehicles we consume such a tremendous amount of gas.

[Borek]

Not only. Driving and owning cars is AFAIK part of american culture. I have never been in US so I can be wrong, but opinions I have heard from my friends are that (compared to Europe) there is no public transportation system in US, as everyone uses his own car always. More individual cars in motion must consume much more gas, that's simple physics.

[Donaldson Tan]

public transport is the key to go.

[constant thinker]

Borek your semi-right. In the major cities, like New York, Boston, etc., there is a good well developed public transportation system, but that is only a small percentages of the U.S. most people, like me, live in areas that have poor public transportation. In my area there is only a primitive bus system, but it doesn't even come out as far as my house. It only serves the downtown area mainly.

New York though is huge on walking, subways, and taxis. I went there and was amazed. Tons of people walk and tons of people ride the subway. Taxis out numbered normal private cars.

Driving though is a huge part of the U.S. culture. Everybody can't wait to get their licenses and for their sweet 16th birthday. Some girls throw some pretty grandiose parties.

If I can find statistics on car ownership in U.S., I'll post them.

[Edit] I'd like to add that when the New York transit workers went on strike, the whole city was practically crippled (at least that's what the cable networks made it look like). Some people were also really pissed.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but during the New York transit strike I think the U.S. Supreme Court order them all to go back to work.

[Yggdrasil]

Another aspect of American culture which promotes excessive fuel usage is the concept of suburbs.  We want the luxury of being able to live in small communities away from the big urban areas in which they work.  This requires commuting to work which of couse means that they will use more gasoline than if they lived close to the place where they work.

[Borek]

If I can find statistics on car ownership in U.S., I'll post them.

See my post #91 in this thread.

[constant thinker]

I forgot about that post Borek. I found something that has more statiscal breakdown though.

See here for the travel habits of the average American.
http://www.bts.gov/programs/national_household_travel_survey/daily_travel.html
Note: This does not include any oil used for freight, or any oil used in public transportation/services.

A more outdated source of fuel consumption per year.
http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_05.html

[Donaldson Tan]

Chemical & Engineering New (C&EN) recently echoed the opinions from this thread.

18 JUL 2006 Biofuels Can't Solve Energy Problem
Corn ethanol and soybean biodiesel yield energy dividend, but neither can replace much petroleum
Glenn Hess

A comparative analysis of the life cycles of two popular fuel additives by researchers at the University of Minnesota shows that biodiesel has a much higher net energy benefit than ethanol, but neither can do much to meet the growing U.S. energy demand.

The study concludes that both corn-grain-derived ethanol and soybean-based biodiesel produce more energy than is needed to grow the crops and convert them into biofuels. However, the amount of energy each returns differs greatly. Biodiesel returns 93% more energy than is used to produce it, whereas ethanol currently provides only 25% more energy, according to the study.

"Quantifying the benefits and costs of biofuels throughout their life cycles allows us not only to make sound choices today but also to identify better biofuels for the future," says Jason Hill, lead author of the study, which appears in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2006, 103, 11206).

The researchers caution that neither biofuel can come close to meeting the growing demand for alternatives to petroleum. Converting all current U.S. corn and soybean production to biofuels would satisfy only 12% of gasoline demand and 6% of diesel usage, they conclude. Meanwhile, global population growth and increasingly affluent societies will increase demand for corn and soybeans for food.

The study says the environmental impacts of the two biofuels also differ. Biodiesel produces 41% fewer greenhouse gas emissions than diesel fuel, whereas ethanol produces 12% fewer greenhouse gas emissions than gasoline. Soybeans also require much less nitrogen fertilizer and pesticides than corn, the study notes.

The researchers say that rising gasoline and diesel prices have made the development of biofuels more economically advantageous and that biodiesel's environmental benefits seem strong enough to merit subsidy. Ethanol also plays an important role as an additive by oxygenating gasoline and making it burn more cleanly.

"We did this study to learn from ethanol and biodiesel," says David Tilman, a study coauthor. "Producing biofuel for transportation is a fledgling industry. Corn ethanol and soybean biodiesel are successful first-generation biofuels. The next step is a biofuel crop that requires low chemical and energy inputs and can give us much greater energy and environmental returns."

The study points to nonfood plants that can grow on marginal lands with minimal input of fertilizers and pesticides as the best hope for biomass-based energy. Prairie grasses and woody plants, as well as agricultural and forestry wastes, have the potential to provide much larger biofuel supplies with greater environmental benefits than corn-produced ethanol and biodiesel from soybeans, according to the Minnesota researchers.

[Dude]

Some guy at Edmunds posted this link  www.teslamotors.com

Apparently, an electric car can now go 0-60 mph in 4 seconds.  I'd like to see this. 

[ATMyller]

Apparently, an electric car can now go 0-60 mph in 4 seconds.  I'd like to see this. 

Here you go: http://youtube.com/watch?v=J2DGfisAndI
It's not the same car, but it humiliates Ferrari 430 and Porsche Carrera GT which has 0-60 mph times of 4.1s and 3.8s.
Then again Ariel Atom weights about the same as candy bar wrapper.

[wereworm73]

Well, it looks like the future for hydrogen fuel cells just got a little brighter.  Physicists in S. Korea made a polyacetylene/titanium polymer that can reversibly hold 63 kg of hydrogen per cubic meter under practical working conditions. 

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/10/8/15/1


Now if only fuel cell manufacturers and nuclear power plants would join forces...One can generate the hydrogen while the other stores it in cells.

[Donaldson Tan]

Physicists in S. Korea made a polyacetylene/titanium polymer that can reversibly hold 63 kg of hydrogen per cubic meter under practical working conditions.

It is actually 7.6% by weight and 5 hydrogen molecules per Titanium atom. Does this not suggest that the efficiency of hydrogen fuel cells is being offset by the increase in mass of the car?

[eugenedakin]

Hi Everyone,

My guess is that ethanol is here to stay... But... did you know that it takes 0.74 million BTU's of fossil fuel to make 1.0 million BTU's of ethanol?

Ethanol price is not in a 'free market' like oil.  Ethanol is subsidized by the government and tariffs are implemented to prevent 'inexpensive' ethanol rom entering the U.S.

Which brings me to another point... Ethanol is more expensive than oil...so, adding ethanol to gasoline actually INCREASES the price that we pay at the pumps.

Chuckle, I am getting my MBA and this is one of my favorite topics. 

Ethanol will be 'in favor' when we are able to make large quantities from cellulostic material from wheat, etc.  This can cause the price of food to decrease while lowering the price of ethanol for production. Until this time, enjoy the elevated gasoline prices

Sincerely,

Eugene