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Topic: Dissolve cardboard boxes?  (Read 16554 times)

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Offline Poofer

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Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« on: February 01, 2016, 08:08:34 PM »
I am new and want to say 'hello' and ask a practical question, or if it is?

I am covered up in cardboard boxes at home: attic and basement full (over years).  Hauling them away is by volume - time consuming and expensive.  Burning them is against codes.

So, I am looking for some practical, safe alternative to make 400-500 'Amazon-like' boxes go away with a little ingenuity, if possible.

I recall some college chemisty (before Nixon)...and recall some poly-foam is dissovable into a liquid when adding Acetone. Similarly, is there a chemical subsance or compound  which might dissolve or otherwise reduce standard cardboard boxes in a short time period, eg in +/- hours  versus composting; or reduce their form to a manageable mass?

Thanks for any considerations.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2016, 09:47:12 PM »
Composting sounds like a very good idea, if you're sure that the paper is clean.  There isn't one chemical that's best for the cellulose that's in cardboard paper.  But some living things will break it down.
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline Poofer

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2016, 08:44:57 PM »
Thanks for confirming what I was afraid of... .  By the time I
were to otherwise compost all those boxes I'd be ready for composting,-)

Offline curiouscat

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 03:45:08 AM »
You should look into mechanical compaction / shredding. I suspect you might be able to reduce the volume a lot by using some tricks.

On a lighter note, conc. H2SO4 would char the cardboard I think. You'd get lesser residue "carbon" that might be easier to dispose. But with the risk and fumes and access regulations for acid I doubt I'd try it seriously.

Offline Intanjir

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 01:01:08 PM »
Styrofoam is easily compacted by acetone because it is mostly air. Cardboard is much more dense. Even if you had a solvent for it that could dissolve 50% cellulose by weight you would still end up with needing a quite a lot of solvent. This would be a much, much larger disposal problem.

Offline curiouscat

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 11:36:22 PM »
Styrofoam is easily compacted by acetone because it is mostly air. Cardboard is much more dense. Even if you had a solvent for it that could dissolve 50% cellulose by weight you would still end up with needing a quite a lot of solvent. This would be a much, much larger disposal problem.

How about a "solvent" that self-destructs? e.g. conc. H2O2? Would it oxidize it away.

PS. I know its unsafe and unpractical but just wondering.

Offline Arkcon

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 09:43:35 AM »
Low concentrations of peroxide won't do anything.  High concentrations may ignite or even explode.  A citizen chemist may have a serious need to remove large amounts of carbon, but charring with acid or peroxide seems needlessly . complicated, for lack of a better term.  We've addressed this sort of "I need a chemical solution to disposal" before.  http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=67934.msg245063#msg245063
Hey, I'm not judging.  I just like to shoot straight.  I'm a man of science.

Offline DrCMS

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 11:35:17 AM »
Why not just unfold, unstaple or cut the packing tape to get the boxes back to the flatpack they started as?  That is as much volume reduction as is reasonable possible.  They can then go in a recycle bin.

Offline Intanjir

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2016, 01:38:30 PM »
How about a "solvent" that self-destructs? e.g. conc. H2O2? Would it oxidize it away.

PS. I know its unsafe and unpractical but just wondering.

It would be strange to use a piranha solution to oxidize something which could be simply combusted much more easily.
Given the large amount of material you would have problems managing the reactants.
Water from the cellulose and H2O2 would rapidly dilute the solution, making it ineffective.

If you don't remove this water you will very quickly have to match each bit of cellulose with more and more reactants.
Cellulose is half water by weight so in the end you would have the same order of magnitude of liquid product as the cellulose you started with.

So you would probably want to remove the water.
So now we have large amounts of a nearly a boiling piranha solution but that is alright because we clearly have a death wish if we have made it this far.
'Fortunately' we won't need the bunsen burner as the decomposition is more than exothermic enough.
Indeed we will have to make sure we only add our boxes every so often or risk thermal run-away.

So perhaps with painstaking management of heat, water, and at least as much hydrogen peroxide as cellulose you could make the cardboard disappear.
Oh yeah, unless you get the oxygen from the air you will need to provide a fair weight of oxidizing reagent.  :-\
This is a fair part of the reason rockets are so derned heavy.
It is so much nicer and cheaper when you can just use the abundant oxygen that is already in the air.

If you are a particularly curious cat you might look into electro-Fenton water treatment.

Offline curiouscat

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Re: Dissolve cardboard boxes?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 06:27:44 AM »

It is so much nicer and cheaper when you can just use the abundant oxygen that is already in the air.

If you are a particularly curious cat you might look into electro-Fenton water treatment.

Funny, that at my day job we do use Fenton's at scale to oxidize away effluent. But no electro-Fenton's though. I will look it up. Thanks.

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