[NickBlack]

** I posted this question on another form, but I realized that forum has no active users (in case you were wondering)**

ok, I read this is possible via a random comment somewhere on the internet, so I'm trying to do some research to see if it's true, but most of the sites I come across are these 'alternative health' sites that I don't really trust.. anyways, on with the question. I'm trying to:

H2O + O3 -> H2O2 + O2 (Hope I balanced that correctly)

now I read one place that simply passing ozone through cold water should produce hydrogen peroxide.

I read elsewhere that it needs to be treated with UV, but further research seems to show me that's to decompose H2O2, not to produce it, the only way I see this method working is to first treat the H2O with UV to break off electrons, and then bubble through the O3 afterwards..

now I could be wrong with all of this.

but the reason I'm hoping this is the case is because I'm currently recording a YouTube series where I literally start with rubbing rocks together (To make stone tools) and build my way up to (fairly) modern tech. and this would be a fairly easy way to make hydrogen peroxide, which will make synthesis of other chemicals and purification of elements much simpler.

Thank You!

*Edited to fix equation balance

[Arkcon]

Ok, lets try to work with what you have.

Your equation is balanced. So, yay.  That doesn't mean it actually happens.

Can you look up where ozone comes from, and how its made?  Can you use that to flesh out your proposal more fully.

[NickBlack]

I already have done research on that. (prepare for a long post)

at this time in the video series I'll have:
Iron
Glass
electricity
coal/carbon
clay
(and some other things not important)
at my disposal.

I can make a glass/clay still to distill the water.
use carbon electrodes to generate hydrogen/oxygen.
capture the oxygen (I won't go into to much detail here how I'm going to build the capture device and whatnot)

use the pure oxygen (so I don't have to worry about nitric oxide forming)

build an ozone generator (iron wire around a glass test tube, with another iron wire inside the test tube, fill the tube with distilled water)

hook the generator up to a whimhurst machine
now I could be wrong but:

the electricity is jumping through the O2 creating the corona, but at such a high velocity it Ionizes the O2 giving it a (+) charge the other non-ionized O2 has enough of a (-) charge that it takes on one of the oxygen molecules giving O3 (Ozone)

ok.. that explanation was shorter than I though it was going to be :p

[KungKemi]

Upon inspection of the enthalpy, entropy, and free energy of this reaction, I seemed to find that it had a ΔH of -48.2 kJ/mol, a ΔG of -46.42 kJ/mol, and a ΔS of -5.973 J/K · mol (assuming that the reaction takes place at room temperature). Looking at the following, the free energy and enthalpy change seems to be favorable, however, the entropy change is not (i.e. I believe that it would be a very slow reaction). You would need a form a catalysis, such as electrolysis as suggested, to actually make this reaction go to completion.

I'm still very much an amateur, but I hope that this somewhat adds to the discussion.

Please let me know if any of the chemistry doesn't seem right.
KungKemi

[Corribus]

however, the entropy change is not (i.e. I believe that it would be a very slow reaction).

The thermodynamic favorability doesn't necessarily correlate to a reaction's speed. It is perfectly normal to have a thermodynamically favorable but slow reaction, or a thermodynamically unfavorable but fast reaction. Thermodynamically unfavorable or non-spontaneous also does not mean that no reaction will form, or that a system can't be driven toward completion. Rather the Gibbs energy specifies the character of the reaction mixture at the equilibrium point (and, again, not how long it takes to get there). A catalyst, importantly, typically does not impact the thermodynamics of a reaction, but rather the kinetics, usually by altering the energy of the transition state.

[KungKemi]

however, the entropy change is not (i.e. I believe that it would be a very slow reaction).

The thermodynamic favorability doesn't necessarily correlate to a reaction's speed. It is perfectly normal to have a thermodynamically favorable but slow reaction, or a thermodynamically unfavorable but fast reaction. Thermodynamically unfavorable or non-spontaneous also does not mean that no reaction will form, or that a system can't be driven toward completion. Rather the Gibbs energy specifies the character of the reaction mixture at the equilibrium point (and, again, not how long it takes to get there). A catalyst, importantly, typically does not impact the thermodynamics of a reaction, but rather the kinetics, usually by altering the energy of the transition state.

Okay, yes, I do know that catalysis would only affect the activation energy of a given reaction, however, I didn't know how exactly the entropy worked so thanks for the correction Corribus. Based on the following data, however, what would you say about the nature of this reaction?

KungKemi

[NickBlack]

KungKemi: Thank you so much for doing that math for me!

that entropy rating might be the reasons why I see people mention UV light (it might help to overcome that entropy) but to my knowledge that would also destroy any H2O2 created..

however, if it works as-is, but just very slow, that is fine by me, time isn't to much of a factor, so long I can make more than decomposes. which looks like it's a bit of a coin flip. March break is coming up, perhaps I should just try it and see what happens

EDIT: I'll admit, I have never really looked into entrophic calculations before, but doing a bit more reading on it, it looks like I should be fine, especially if I keep the temperature cool