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Topic: Another elephant toothpaste thread  (Read 16435 times)

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Offline Borek

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2017, 03:33:47 AM »
Is this saying I can mix 184 grams of sodium iodide with 100 milliliters of water?

Yes.

Quote
Or is this just the maximum I can dissolve in the water but may actually need much less?

Yes (but in no way it disagrees with your above statement).

Quote
I guess I'm assuming I'm measuring the sodium by weight and the water by volume...

Yes.

Have you checked the wikipedia references suggested?
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Offline Not a Kemist

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2017, 07:48:00 AM »
Is this saying I can mix 184 grams of sodium iodide with 100 milliliters of water?

Yes.

Quote
Or is this just the maximum I can dissolve in the water but may actually need much less?

Yes (but in no way it disagrees with your above statement).

Quote
I guess I'm assuming I'm measuring the sodium by weight and the water by volume...

Yes.

Have you checked the wikipedia references suggested?

Thank you.
Ok, so at this point then I'm thinking that unless someone has experimented with quite a few different ratios of sodium iodide to hydrogen peroxide solution then I will have to experiment myself with it and see when kind of reactions I get... although I have the means to measure by weight I'm thinking simply trying something like 1/2 teaspoon of sodium and about 4 oz. of water may be a good start... with 16oz. of hydrogen peroxide.

I forgot to mention this last night but as for the PDF links I'm not sure what you're referring to. Links in the sodium iodide page?
Every other word on that page is a link so....


Offline Borek

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 07:51:45 AM »
There is a wikipedia page on the elephant toothpaste experiment.
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Offline Not a Kemist

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 08:00:07 AM »
There is a wikipedia page on the elephant toothpaste experiment.

Oh, ok. Never actually went to that page I don't think.
It's saying 8g of Kl with 50mL of H2O2 so I can use that as a guideline.

I was also checking out this PDF from Flinn Scientific....
https://www.flinnsci.com/globalassets/flinn-scientific/all-free-pdfs/dc91098.pdf?v=d60a9418fb0e401ebfba9c93d27c5d9f

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2017, 12:14:24 PM »
https://www.flinnsci.com/globalassets/flinn-scientific/all-free-pdfs/dc91098.pdf?v=d60a9418fb0e401ebfba9c93d27c5d9f

The link you posted had these safety tips
Quote
Safety Precautions
Hydrogen peroxide, 30% will act as an oxidizing agent with practically any substance. This substance is severely corrosive to the skin, eyes, and respiratory tract; a very strong oxidant; and a dangerous fire and explosion risk. Do not heat this substance. Sodium iodide is slightly toxic by ingestion. Although the dish washing liquid is considered non-hazardous, do not ingest the material. Do not stand over the reaction; steam and oxygen are produced quickly. Wear appropriate chemical splash goggles, chemical-resistant gloves and a chemical-resistant apron. This activity requires the use of hazardous components and/or has the potential for hazardous reactions. Please review current Material Safety Data Sheets for additional safety, handling, and disposal information.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2017, 12:35:40 PM »
I did not see a mention of
8g of Kl

in the WIKI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant%27s_toothpaste
or the link you posted
https://www.flinnsci.com/globalassets/flinn-scientific/all-free-pdfs/dc91098.pdf?v=d60a9418fb0e401ebfba9c93d27c5d9f

I did see in your link
Sodium iodide solution, 2 M, 5 mL


By the way
Do you know how much sodium iodide you have
with 2 M solution that 5 mL (from the link you posted)
or
1/2 teaspoon of sodium iodide and about 4 oz. of water  (your guess in a previous post)

This not to say that 8 grams or your 1/2 teaspoon will not work
Just asking if you want to do the computations




Offline Not a Kemist

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2017, 12:52:56 PM »
I did not see a mention of
8g of Kl

in the WIKI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant%27s_toothpaste

I did see in your link
Sodium iodide solution, 2 M, 5 mL

It was in the first reference link in the wiki page above... to this PDF
https://chem.utah.edu/_documents/pdf/undergrad_program/elephants%20toothpaste.pdf


By the way
Do you know how much sodium iodide you have
with 2 M solution that 5 mL (from the link you posted)
or
1/2 teaspoon of sodium iodide and about 4 oz. of water  (your guess in a previous post)

This not to say that 8 grams or your 1/2 teaspoon will not work
Just asking if you want to do the computations

I have 100g of sodium iodide and 1 gallon of the hydrogen peroxide.

As for the safety precautions from the Flinn PDF....They do make it sound a little more harsh than the others.
After viewing the YouTube videos... #1 The Imagination Station (outside) and #2 The Jimmy Kimmel show (inside)... these were performed by people who were clearly scientists. They seemed content with a lab coat, glasses, and the IS guy wore gloves but the one on Kimmel did not... and even though you could clearly see the vapor coming from the end result they didn't seem concerned (although I'm sure standing there above taking deep breaths would be a mistake)!

So, I'll probably wear gloves and glasses like I mentioned earlier and throw on a jacket.... I can either do it outside or inside with the garage door open.... I can even have a 4' commercial fan blowing out if I want.

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2017, 01:22:48 PM »
I want to just discuss a question you had in the original post

...
 Mine is a powder... does this matter? If not, would I add it as a powder or mix it with something to make it a liquid... and how much?
...

The reaction would probably work with the powder
but maybe not at the optimum.

I posted the ingredients in a Dawn dish soap earlier in the thread.
I think you will find that the first ingredient is water (search the internet further) but how much is in the company's recipe'.
It still should be a major constituent
So even though you might only use 5 mL of dish soap, it has lots of water in it.
The hydrogen peroxide is about 70% water and 30% hydrogen peroxide.
So if you had 30 mL of Hydrogen peroxide, it would contain about 20 mL of water.

After seeing that the sodium iodide dissolve pretty readily in water at  room temperature,
it is likely that it would disperse throughout the mixture fairly quickly.
But if the sodium iodide was in solution already, it would disperse faster.
Of course we do not want the sodium iodide to be too dilute in solution.
That is why I suggested something close to a concentrated solution of sodium iodide.
The faster the sodium iodide disperses the more likely it would come in contact with the hydrogen peroxide quicker.
In a lab setting I have found using liquids are easier to pour into a container.




Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2017, 01:33:10 PM »
After reading the link
https://chem.utah.edu/_documents/pdf/undergrad_program/elephants%20toothpaste.pdf
They suggest having a fire extinguisher handy as a safety item.

From that link
Quote
when you drop a match into the flask the O2 bubbles will catch on fire.
Actually the Oxygen does not burn, but the high concentration of Oxygen will cause the rest of the stuff that makes up the bubble to burn more rapidly.
Since you have a high concentration of Oxygen being produced it is probably a good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy even if you do not have a burning match.




Offline Not a Kemist

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2017, 02:02:57 PM »
After reading the link
https://chem.utah.edu/_documents/pdf/undergrad_program/elephants%20toothpaste.pdf
They suggest having a fire extinguisher handy as a safety item.

From that link
Quote
when you drop a match into the flask the O2 bubbles will catch on fire.
Actually the Oxygen does not burn, but the high concentration of Oxygen will cause the rest of the stuff that makes up the bubble to burn more rapidly.
Since you have a high concentration of Oxygen being produced it is probably a good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy even if you do not have a burning match.

Roger that. Just ordered a multi-purpose one on Amazon. Class A,B,C

Offline billnotgatez

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2017, 02:08:29 PM »
I thought I would chat about part of your post
...
 although I have the means to measure by weight I'm thinking simply trying something like 1/2 teaspoon of sodium and about 4 oz. of water may be a good start... with 16oz. of hydrogen peroxide.
...

It is likely that any reasonable amount of any of the items used in making the elephant toothpaste will work, but not necessarily at the optimum.

Using volume rather than weight introduces some inaccuracy. Using non metric units adds additional complexity to determining how much of the catalyst you actually have.

1 Teaspoon = 0.166667 US fluid ounce
6 teaspoons in one ounce
1 Teaspoon = 4.92892 Milliliter
1 US fluid ounce = 29.5735 Milliliter

We would not be sure how tightly packed the 1/2 teaspoon and therefore using the density to determine the weight would be suspect.

Sodium iodide Density 3.67 g/cm3
1 cm3 ≡ 1 ml


Offline Borek

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2017, 02:57:35 PM »
It's saying 8g of Kl with 50mL of H2O2 so I can use that as a guideline.

Yes, sounds like a good starting point.

My bet is that using KI solution (opposed to a solid) can make the reaction faster and a better effect, just keep the amount of KI in the same ballpark.

This is in general a reasonably safe experiment - the only thing that should be handled with care being the hydrogen peroxide - but even that is not THAT nasty, just keep it out of contact with your body. It can also decolorize clothes on contact, so if you are going to do the in an expensive three pieces suit you better use an apron ;)
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Offline Not a Kemist

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2017, 03:15:49 PM »
Have to love Amazon... fire extinguisher already arrived!!

Don't worry, Borek.... I only wear suits to weddings and funerals... although some would argue that's the same thing  ;D
By the way  your current post total has the numbers 1-2-3-4-5 (23451) in it... quick math test... when will that happen again? You have 10 seconds.

I'm gonna do this by the weekend... I'll link a video.

Offline Borek

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2017, 04:29:54 PM »
Easy one, @23514.
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Offline Not a Kemist

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Re: Another elephant toothpaste thread
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2017, 06:26:48 PM »
Yeah, it wasn't hard... buy may make me go waste money on the lottery.

On another note... every time I get a reply on this thread I get two emails... any idea why the double notification?

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