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Topic: Bonding/Reactivity  (Read 6390 times)

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Offline pyrophoric

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Bonding/Reactivity
« on: July 30, 2017, 09:33:11 PM »
I'm an undergrad senior of a biochem degree at a state university and I've spent a lot of time thinking about chemical bonding + reactivity throughout undergrad trying to approach what drives bonding & reactivity and most of the time in chemistry, organic chemistry, biochemistry-it is polarity- positive and negative attractions between ions, functional groups, or amino acids and the magnitude of those attractions based on the electronegativity of the atoms or charge on the ions that drives the enthalpy of bond breaking and formation along with the re-ordering of the environment based on entropic changes allowing spontaneous reactions to proceed. 

I've studied some electricity (even less magnetism) in physics classes and I'm trying to relate these concepts with potential energy through pure electronic interactions like coulombs law, electric fields, voltage but a lot of these equations depend on distance and that doesn't really work for electrons moving about the nucleus, the distance isn't constant.  So I can't exactly account for the energy from that perspective at all which brings me back to entropy and I start to think that there is energy in the immediate environment right around the ions/atoms/molecules.  Negative and positive attractions aren't static, they have mobility and fluctuate in the environment to create things like induced dipoles creating a chain reaction to alter these electronic fields across the molecule and probably further, like a wave that dissipates with resistance.  But what is the resistance? Is it just the permittivity of free space that needs to be overcome by the potential energy between molecules that allows reactions to proceed through bond reformation and environmental re-ordering? 

I'm acutely aware of electronic geometry and 3-d planes of different orbitals permitting bonding to physically occur (learned a lot of that stuff in inorganic chemistry along with MO theory, Ligand Field theory, Coordination Chemistry) but I just can't seem to fit it all together, especially when trying to apply these same concepts to Spectroscopy or even covalent bonding.  I am getting lost in my lack of knowledge for physical chemistry and quantum, I have no understanding of quantum mechanics but I'm thinking that is the only place to go from here.  How else am I supposed to put all this stuff together?  I don't have the greatest background in Calculus but I'm not sure there is any way around it.  Any advise or direction is greatly appreciated.   

Offline Irlanur

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Re: Bonding/Reactivity
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 04:20:15 AM »
Quote
I have no understanding of quantum mechanics but I'm thinking that is the only place to go from here.

I think you're right there... Nevertheless, chemistry is older than QM, so one can still have some feeling for reactivity and so on. If you don't need to put a number on it and general trends suffice, then qualitatively one can argue quite a lot with the Coulomb law actually.

Offline Corribus

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Re: Bonding/Reactivity
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 10:45:08 AM »
Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), if you really want to understand chemical bonding, reaction kinetics, and so forth you have to understand quantum mechanics. This is the basis of all of modern physical chemistry and materials science, and certainly spectroscopy is impossible to understand without QM. There's no way around it.

The good news is that from a math perspective you really don't need more than a basic grasp of calculus and a familiarity with differential equations to at least follow the concepts of quantum mechanics.

You can wiggle out a working ability to predict the behavior of chemical systems in the macrophase using entry level electromagnetism - and this is, being honest, more than enough to be a competent synthetic chemist. Nevertheless there's a reason physical chemistry is part of every modern university chemistry curriculum. I'm surprised you didn't have to take it for a biochemistry degree.
   
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline pyrophoric

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Re: Bonding/Reactivity
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 06:35:25 PM »
Yea biochemistry is a weird major, you don't get to go too far in depth in biology or chemistry or physics which kind of sucks but I like the general approach before I get too specific, i was always big into chemistry but wanted to apply it to biological systems.  I figure it's a necessity to know how instrumentation utilizes physics principles to exploit chemical properties in biological systems. I've been preparing for a pre-med track but I'm also considering job possibilities with bachelor's in biochem before I commit (unfortunately, there are few).  I'm thinking I can get some grasp on the field if I worked for a year or so and then decide whether to enroll in med school or get my masters.  Doing an independent study on HPLC and GC/MS this semester, should help with experience.  Do you think it's plausible to learn physical chemistry & quantum on my own time or do you think I'd be better off just enrolling in courses?  Thanks for the replies.       

Offline Corribus

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Re: Bonding/Reactivity
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 10:07:18 PM »
Given enough time and dedication you can learn anything on your own. However, physical chemistry is not an easy course - definitely the hardest from a purely conceptual point of view for any chemistry major, and among the hardest among all courses taught at an undergraduate institution. Encountered for the first time, many of the concepts are foreign, bizarre, and even counterintuitive - the principles of QM are different from classical physics, such that there are no analogies in every day life to draw upon (such as particles being in multiple locations at once, the concept of uncertainty, and so on). It's really helpful to have a good teacher who can convey important points, who knows how to test your learning properly, and who can answer questions, because you'll have a billion of them. Of course, it's not a sure thing that you'll have a teacher like this when you enroll for a course, but it also helps when there are other students who are also struggling with the material, because you can work together to gain a group understanding. YMMV of course but if you really want to learn it, you're probably better off taking a course than trying to learn it on your own. At the least, you could audit a course if that sort of thing is allowed at your university.
What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?  - Richard P. Feynman

Offline pyrophoric

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Re: Bonding/Reactivity
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 11:14:38 PM »
sounds like great advice, thank you.  I'll definitely look into auditing the courses, definitely would help to have some guidance with the concepts. 

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