[The Tao]

There are obvious reasons why the middle east is an unstable area. For one, we're witnessing a failed society and it's values, being surrounded by powerful liberal captialist countries. The only item that delays the fall of Islamic society is the fact that the western world runs on oil, which of course the middle east in abundant in.

For those of you who think the middle east is in chaos now, just stick around to the day when the western world ceases to run on oil!

[P]

How about this for a better analogy.

The IRA (affiliated to Sinn Fein a political party in Ireland) blows up a town centre in the Mainland UK or Northen Ireland killing dozens of Innocent civilians so the UK bombs the crap out of Dublin.

Or the IRA using weapons sent by Irish Americans ambush and kill 6 UK soldiers on border patrol so the UK bombs Boston.

How many people around the world would agree that that is a proportionate action by one country against another? 

Both those killings happened along with ~3000 others over 30 years but the UK did not attack another country over it and in the end the only way forward was by talking.  People in the UK did not like "giving in" to terrorists but in the end it stopped people being blown up.

Israel should learn from that and start acting like a grown up country not a petulant child.

A bit of an old topic, I know (sowwy) but the IRA/Britain analogy is the best.

I don't think it's the same at all  - the British had lots of troops in Island and the IRA were bombing London to try to get them out (even though the majority vote of the local people was to keep them there).  Isreal arn't allowed to have troops in the Lebanon at all anymore and have always said ' we'll keep out as long were not attacked'  -  they were attacked and thus they kept to their word with massive retaliation.   this is just going to keep on and on and on unfortunately untill their neighbors stop declairing war on them - which they won't.

The continuing cycle seems to be - Isreal are attacked - they retaliate and occupy - every one blames Isreal so they pull out  -   they are attacked again - They retailiate and occupy - everyone whines and moans - they pull out.  They are attacked again and so on and so on..  to the end probably.


Merry Christmas anyway.

[The Tao]

Being that the IRA and The Irish Republic are very interesting topics, I've decided to make another thread on the boards that will address it.

[Donaldson Tan]

The Arab population increases at a faster rate than the Israelis. It would probably be wise for Israel to make a sustainable peace sooner rather than later.

Thinking about it, it's kind of amazing that Israel is still there. It's this little island of Jews in great big sea of Arabs. Also, I guess some parts of Europe are still a bit anti-jewish.

Many countries have vested interest to maintain the current status quo in the Middle East. Although countries such as the USA and Russian Federation take side, I doubt neither wants to see the destruction of Israel. The Middle East fiasco prevents the formation of a United Arab League which will pose more diplomatic and economic security problem to the West.

[The Tao]

Thinking about it, it's kind of amazing that Israel is still there. It's this little island of Jews in great big sea of Arabs. Also, I guess some parts of Europe are still a bit anti-jewish.

Well, actually Israel went to war with a large number of arab states all at the same time, and to the arab's embarassment, Israel quite frankly kicked their butt. Of course, they did have military technology from Europe, and later from the United States, largely due to the Clinton years.

[dfx-]

Well, actually Israel went to war with a large number of arab states all at the same time.

That there started it in my opinion. From there on in, Arab countries understandably continue to attack and Israel continue to retaliate.

I still don't see how two soldiers being kidnapped equates to what Israel did and it being allowed happen by world powers. It's just not acceptable to me.

[Donaldson Tan]

Well, actually Israel went to war with a large number of arab states all at the same time, and to the arab's embarassment, Israel quite frankly kicked their butt. Of course, they did have military technology from Europe, and later from the United States, largely due to the Clinton years.

The Israeli Defense Force (IDF) is only the armed force in the Middle East that has Network-Centric Warfare capabilities. The ideal type of warfare in the middle east would involve battle tanks with air support (and infantry support in urban environment). By examining the armour inventory of the various armed forces in the Middle East, we would have a clear idea who has a tactical advantage right from the start.

[The Tao]

The argument of Israel invading land, and keeping such land as immoral is quite shrewd. Israel occupies only strategic areas, such as the Golan heights and the west bank.

[Hunt]

My family was displaced from south Lebanon in 1975 when the palestinian terrorists arrived. This summer I really had high hopes that I would finally be able to return to my village. Oh well ...  maybe next year 

[Hunt]

Thinking about it, it's kind of amazing that Israel is still there. It's this little island of Jews in great big sea of Arabs. Also, I guess some parts of Europe are still a bit anti-jewish.

What about the non-arab minorities that are constantly persecuted by the muslim fanatics and arab nationalists ? What about the Assyrians , Chaldeans, & Syriac of Iraq ? What about the Copts of Egypt ? What about the Maronites and Melkites of Lebanon ? What about the rest of the Christian minorities of the Middle East who are completely defenceless and getting chewed up because of some pseudo israeli-arab war going on one front and an arab-persian one on another ?

[The Tao]

My family was displaced from south Lebanon in 1975 when the palestinian terrorists arrived. This summer I really had high hopes that I would finally be able to return to my village. Oh well ...  maybe next year 

Wow you're really involved in the situation.

[Donaldson Tan]

What about the non-arab minorities that are constantly persecuted by the muslim fanatics and arab nationalists ? What about the Assyrians , Chaldeans, & Syriac of Iraq ? What about the Copts of Egypt ? What about the Maronites and Melkites of Lebanon ? What about the rest of the Christian minorities of the Middle East who are completely defenceless and getting chewed up because of some pseudo israeli-arab war going on one front and an arab-persian one on another ?

I have friends who are displaced (physically and/or emotionally) by this ongoing conflict. One of mates comes from a family of Palestianian academics. She spent her childhood in Greece, Canada and the United Kingdom because she cannot return home. I have a friend who recently grieved for his cousin who died in duty while serving the Israeli Defence Force. His view towards the Arab-Israeli conflict shifted from moderate to anti-Arab overnight. Neither party wants to see the continued loss of friends and relatives in this conflict.

[AlwaysINXS]

I wonder what would happen if the entire middle east blew up and all/most of the countries started fighting. It seams that quite a few of them simply don't get along with any of their neighbors. The U.S. is currently stuck in the middle almost, seeing as we have quite a few troops tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Actually stationing troops on the pretext of governing Iraq is a good military tactic. The American troops not only help to maintain security in Iraq, but also act as a major military deterrent in the Middle East. Why do you think the Iranians object having American troops at their border? (Iraq is adjacent to Iran.)

I believe that the United States is "trying" to strangle Iran by surrounding them with "democratic nations", (Iran and Afghanistan) and as you said a fair percentage of their army.

[joeflsts]

Back to Iran... Please consider the following, regardless of your politics:

The current leader of Iran, approved by the ruling religious faction, recently stated that Israel should be wiped off the map.  I suppose giving him the tools to create nuclear weapons makes perfect sense.

I really don't see a need to say anything else.

Joe

[Donaldson Tan]

The current leader of Iran, approved by the ruling religious faction, recently stated that Israel should be wiped off the map.  I suppose giving him the tools to create nuclear weapons makes perfect sense.

When does a politican say something he actually meant or he is just saying to appease the public or other figures of power in Iran?